Motif development

stufisher

Just stumbled upon this little vid clip ... it's the sort of easy listening jazz style I'd like to play on my Ibanez AM93 ... problem is I don't even understand the text on screen  

I'd be grateful if someone could just turn this into layman's speak so that I can at least have a go at this progression or something similar ... I think it sounds great.

All comments muchly appreciated.p

viz

Post the vid

stufisher

Apologies ... link is below:

https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMFFuUbMw/

viz

Ahh this is awesome, I love Jens Larsen. I haven’t got time to go into this, it’s so rich with ideas, but you can look up each thing and see what it means, and listen to what he’s doing. It’s really well annotated. 

Brad

As @viz says, there’s a lot to unpack here. 

@stufisher are you after help with motif development specifically or as many of those terms as possible?

Before you concern yourself with any of the stuff in the video there are a few things you need to to have down. 

1. Have something to play - Jens Larsen is playing ‘Just Friends’ as the vehicle for what he’s doing here. You’ll need to pick a song, standard or a Jazz/Blues to work on this stuff with. 

2. Know your chords - how well do you know triads, 7ths and other extended chords? Close voice, drop2 and drop3 and their inversions on every string set?

You can just learn what he played of course, but if you want to understand the ‘why’s and how’s’ you’ll need to get to work. 

However there are plenty of simple things you can do to begin getting this approach under the fingers. 

Brad

I should add, if you trawl through Jens Larsen’s YouTube I’m sure you’ll find vids/lessons on all those aspects in that vid you posted. 

stufisher

Thanks @Brad. Good questions.

I actually don't understand a lot of the text on the vid ... motif development was the tipping point that made me request help. There's no rush to get behind the meanings of the words because I'm stuck on your second question ... I'm nowhere near that level of comprehension or fluidity with triads, extensions or inversions.

I'll have a look at his YT channel and see what I can glean ... I just know that my arthritic fretboard fingers are going to hurt and my stretch will be limited but ho hum ... I'll have a go.

Thanks again.

Brad

Ok, so there is a lot of work involved in getting to that style of playing. But there are things you can do with your existing knowledge and even a small amount of learning that will help get you on your way

Short Term:

1. Rhythm and feel - Get this right and you’re most of the way there. 

2. Using what you already know and applying simple concepts - this style of playing is about movement. If you’re confident with a basic 12 bar blues, simply approaching a given chord a semitone above or below, will help create a sense of movement in your playing. You can create rhythmic ideas by doing so. It’s simple but effective. 

Further to this, you can just try moving your fingers around to different frets/strings while holding a chord shape to create short melodic ideas. This can be hit and miss, but worth trying without the worry of theory etc and just keep what you like the sound of. 

Long Term:

1. Triads - getting your triads and their inversions together. So much music can be made with just triads and they don’t require too much in the way of stretching. 

2. Drop 2 voicings and inversions - investigate these, use what are achievable and relevant to you. 

So a couple of things from that vid:

Line Cliche - a melodic movement within a chord. A chord is played and we can hear something changing, very common in Latin music. 

Motif - a short musical statement. 

Motif development - how has that initial motif (short musical statement) been changed? The rhythm? The order of notes? Anything added?

As mentioned there is a lot to unravel here. Just check out some of his vids. Tim Lerch as well, he’s got a lovely style and approach and is great at explaining this style of playing. 

Good luck and enjoy the process  

stufisher

Great stuff @Brad you've deffo set me on the right path for me.

I'm truly grateful ... thank you  

Cranky

Motif implies a pretty intimate knowledge of all aspects of the song — rhythmic, melodic, etc.  Especially if it’s a jazz tune that modulates.  Not difficult with a typical pop song.  But to know the logic of a modulating jazz song, or more still to know how you might comp your own.  You can use your basic chord construction (i.e. triads) knowledge to work through the theory, but as @Brad said, getting into the drop 2 and 3 chords, while it seems daunting on the surface, actually makes the voicings and voice leading easier to see and play with and can actually help demystify the theory.  The way that chords imply each other is beautiful.

fwiw, op had me looking up “what is motif music” and I enjoyed this one: https://hellomusictheory.com/learn/motifs/.  It got me thinking about how jazz is difficult to learn — especially if you don’t grow up immersed in it — because it involves more complicated motifs of every kind: melodic, harmonic and rhythmic.

axisus

Ahh ..... so that was tiktok

I've never been there before