Amps / Live

thomasross20

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/amps-cabs/72291-matrix-nl12-neo-light-unboxing-review-video-soloaweek.html

http://www.truthinshredding.com/2013/07/tom-quayle-testing-out-matrix-nl12.html

thomasross20

EVen if I don't get the VB800 that cab is a definite - so small and light!! Pretty excited about it - hope I'm not jumping the gun...

2x12 version:

http://uk.matrixamplification.com/nl212.html

Costly for the cab and amp altogether? Close to £1k... 

If anybody thinks either the VB800 or the NL12/NL212 cab are fads... please let me know so I'm not wasting my time

Jalapeno

Bit niche (for resale value I mean).  But lightweight=goodness for gigging !!!

IMHO - get a mainstream Marshall Head (valve) and a 2x12 or 2x10 cab (not an MG -they're supposed to be v.unreliable - though it's my backup ) ). You'll GAS more over amps than guitars in my experience - just start.  (Or the Cube80XL obviously )

thomasross20

Haha, you love those cubes!

Yes, it's been mentioned that the Matrix amp may be hard to sell on. 

Lightweight for gigging. But maybe if so light it'd react to the thumping bass & drums and impair sound quality? 

Gah...

Mesa Boogie express 5:50 + flight case £950 close to me. 

Need to go play some amps first.

mike_l

The Marshall MG's are pretty shit. And I'd consider myself a Marshall fanboi.

There's way better available for similar dollar.

ThePrettyDamned

thomasross20;376558" said:

Haha, you love those cubes! :DYes, it's been mentioned that the Matrix amp may be hard to sell on. Lightweight for gigging. But maybe if so light it'd react to the thumping bass & drums and impair sound quality? Gah...

Mesa Boogie express 5:50 + flight case £950 close to me. Need to go play some amps first.

Just go to a shop and work them out, every amp you're looking at is *very* different, enough so that I can't imagine one player wanting all of them.

They a bunch out and work out what you like the sound of. Then take it from there and ask about the reliability of the stuff you like, and if there is a better option. It's a much better approach than seeing what you can afford and wanting all of them

ICBM

monquixote said:

thomasross20 said:

If I could get a great sounding solid state amp, I think I'd go for that just because of less maintenance ...

Seriously it's a non issue. 

Decent valve amps are very reliable and often when SS amps go pop they are unrepairable.

But even though that's true, solid-state is lower maintenance. A decent one won't need any work whatsoever except possibly for a bit of contact cleaner in the jacks and maybe the pots in twenty years or more. Even the best valve amps occasionally need valves, especially if they're modern ones - if you're going to go for valve and this is an issue, I'd pick an amp which doesn't need biasing - that simplifies things a bit and makes it easily user-servicable. (There are a wide range of amps at all price and size levels which this applies to.) Valves can fail without warning, especially at gigs if you're pushing a small amp hard.

There are also some solid-state amps which are particularly unreliable and which I wouldn't recommend at all, including the Marshall AVT and MG-DFX series. (Older Valvestates and pre-DFX MGs, and the new MG 'carbon fibre' series are OK.)

Right now if I had to pick a reliable, good-sounding amp that was loud enough to gig and light enough to easily carry I would go solid state - but first making sure it was not known for problems. If I had to pick a *great*-sounding amp and reliability was less of a worry I'd still pick valve… to my disappointment I have not yet heard a solid-state amp that sounds as good as a really good valve amp.

BilliBob

Line 6  Vetta II get anew one for £750, very clean one on ebay atmo for £500.  You will need the FBV floorboard also. £100 off ebay.

Jalapeno

OK.  New Rule.  No more options for Tigger !!!!! )

DesVegas

My Peavey Bandit 112 (SS around £80 ebay) has been very good to me for gigs. Nice and light and loud. It accepts pedals well and is quiet enough for home use too. The reverbs not that good but the dirt channel is great (3 different types to choose from)

monquixote

ICBM said:

But even though that's true, solid-state is lower maintenance. A decent one won't need any work whatsoever except possibly for a bit of contact cleaner in the jacks and maybe the pots in twenty years or more. Even the best valve amps occasionally need valves, especially if they're modern ones - if you're going to go for valve and this is an issue, I'd pick an amp which doesn't need biasing - that simplifies things a bit and makes it easily user-servicable. (There are a wide range of amps at all price and size levels which this applies to.) Valves can fail without warning, especially at gigs if you're pushing a small amp hard.

I agree with what you are saying here, but it's certainly been my experience that when valve amps go wrong (which they do from time to time). I've taken it to my tech and they've replaced a valve or a resistor and it's been back to me in a couple of days (I know you've seen a lot more amps go bang than me, so maybe I'm lucky). I know quite a few people  who've had solid state go bang where they have to order some custom IC in that takes weeks and maybe it's not worth repairing etc. That said I know if you get a bomb proof SS it probably won't go wrong in the first place, but then most of the ones I really like such as the JC120 are quite expensive and heavy anyway.

I think people have more trouble with regularly revalving amps now because of the trend of running an 18 watter flat out or an AC30 with an attenuator. My experience is that if you gig something like a Twin it's running only just out of tickover at a gig and the valves last for ages.

ICBM

monquixote said:

ICBM said:

But even though that's true, solid-state is lower maintenance. A decent one won't need any work whatsoever except possibly for a bit of contact cleaner in the jacks and maybe the pots in twenty years or more. Even the best valve amps occasionally need valves, especially if they're modern ones - if you're going to go for valve and this is an issue, I'd pick an amp which doesn't need biasing - that simplifies things a bit and makes it easily user-servicable. (There are a wide range of amps at all price and size levels which this applies to.) Valves can fail without warning, especially at gigs if you're pushing a small amp hard.

I agree with what you are saying here, but it's certainly been my experience that when valve amps go wrong (which they do from time to time). I've taken it to my tech and they've replaced a valve or a resistor and it's been back to me in a couple of days (I know you've seen a lot more amps go bang than me, so maybe I'm lucky). I know quite a few people  who've had solid state go bang where they have to order some custom IC in that takes weeks and maybe it's not worth repairing etc. That said I know if you get a bomb proof SS it probably won't go wrong in the first place, but then most of the ones I really like such as the JC120 are quite expensive and heavy anyway.

I think people have more trouble with regularly revalving amps now because of the trend of running an 18 watter flat out or an AC30 with an attenuator. My experience is that if you gig something like a Twin it's running only just out of tickover at a gig and the valves last for ages.

Yes, I completely agree with all that. I would still say that for most people, valve amps require 'more maintenance' than solid-state.

*Most* solid-state amps (even the unreliable ones) don't blow up at a gig. But if they do you're stuffed without a backup. One of the reasons I still use a valve amp is that with spare valves and fuses (and admittedly the knowledge I have), I don't need to take a spare amp. For many people that isn't an option, so a solid-state amp with its lower failure rate (even though a failure is more serious) is 'more reliable'… or at least a better-odds gamble . The best solid-state amps - eg something like a Peavey Bandit - are so unlikely to fail at a gig that it's really not worth worrying about.

thomasross20

I can't help but keep coming back to those NL12 / NL212 cabs.... So, so light and loud. No backbreaking. Do you think the resale value on these would be bad, or just the VB800? 

thomasross20

Fixed bias amps. Tell me about them. Less maintenance?

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Fixed bias amps. Tell me about them. Less maintenance?

No. The same (if not adjustable, eg Mesa, Peavey) or more (if adjustable, most others) than cathode-bias.

Fixed bias does not mean the bias is not adjustable, it means the bias setting is fixed by a separate circuit rather than the valves themselves. They are generally the only kind which are adjustable.

thomasross20

Argh! I was reading this which says it requires virtually no maintenance. So maybe there's a pot you can turn which makes it easier?

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_amps_detail.asp?stock=14091710480032

Basically the biasing is just like the (d.c.) biasing of a bipolar transistor, right? So you try to get the output to sit at mid-rail for max output swing?

Definitely liking these "mini" (but gig-worthy) heads like the vb800, mesa boogie mark 5:25, bogner atma etc.

OK, Vox it OUT of the running.. decided I'm not keen on the sounds Vox produces (for me, personally).

Blackstar & Mesa are sounding good to me, with Mesa being by far the most expensive (and complicated, but the 5:25 has low power output for home practice). 

Orange looks REALLY cool ... TH30 looks good..

Not convinced with Marshall as I keep hearing about reliability issues. 

VB800... still pretty cool but very undecided as brand new and pricey (for not much more could get Mesa + cab)

Nice:

The Orange Cr60C is about half the price BUT I prefer the TH30 sound... and lo and behold... the TH30 is valve while CR60C is SS. 

Blackstar also amazing value for money. Hmm... Home practice & weight will still come into it..

TH30 and VB800 unfortunately don't have reverb.

ICBM

thomasross20 said:

Argh! I was reading this which says it requires virtually no maintenance. So maybe there's a pot you can turn which makes it easier?

http://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/electric_amps_detail.asp?stock=14091710480032

No, they are intentionally mixing up two concepts to make a marketing point. Mesa use non-adjustable fixed bias in most of their amps, and cathode-bias in all the others. Their intention is that you should match the valves to the amp not the other way round, which means that you can either buy their own-branded sets, or other ones which are known to be compatible. The system does work very well as long as you don't mind that restriction.

thomasross20 said:

Basically the biasing is just like the (d.c.) biasing of a bipolar transistor, right? So you try to get the output to sit at mid-rail for max output swing?

Not quite, in an output stage the valves are not biased to the mid-point - they would be in a Class A amp, but those effectively don't exist for guitar no matter what the marketing says so don't worry about that .

In a Class AB amp the valves are in cutoff for some of the time, which reduces the average dissipation and makes it possible to get more power from a set than you would in Class A. The trick is to bias them hot enough to avoid crossover distortion as they go in and out of cutoff, and cool enough not to exceed their maximum dissipation rating. Often this range can be quite narrow, which is why amps are fitted with bias adjustments - because it's difficult to set a point which will work with all valves. Mesa simply set the point and expect you not to use valves which would then be out of the right range.

ThePrettyDamned

If you want an orange, the Rocker 30 (used only) is EXCELLENT. 

The TH30 underwhelmed me completely, I was hoping for a rocker 30 but with eqable cleans.  I was left with a low headroom clean channel and an overly gained up (lol never thought I'd say that) and muddy sounding (even when set bright, inexplicably) dirty channel. 

EDIT: That's assuming you like the sound and feel of orange amps.  They're quite unique, very different to most other things. 

thomasross20

So do class A, B, or AB sounds better?

I design all sorts of these amps but at a much smaller scale at work (semiconductor chips!). 

Oh!! Everything I've read and heard about the TH30 has been amazing so far. That's a surprise. The rocker 30 is sooooo much more expensive I heard the Orange clean was great and had loads of headroom

The Boogie Mark 5:25 looks and sounds great but is very expensive and not the simple thing I'm looking for. 

thomasross20

Guitarguitar recommended the Blackstar ID60 (or 260), Blackstar valve arena series, HT stage 60 or the Boogie MKV 25W head.