How to learn to play

drpbier

Not sure if this makes sense but I'm about 5 years into learning to play. Did Grades 2-4. Can play a handful of songs semi-competently and forgotten another handful. Know a few scale shapes and note positions. Can execute a good selection of techniques to some degree. Have played in front of people a couple of times and enjoyed it. So I'm not a rank beginner but not sure if really intermediate. Anyway, what I'd love to do is be able to lose myself in playing. Just pick up a guitar and play, maybe with a backing track, maybe just to myself. No idea how to learn to do that! Any guidance?

blobb

Couple of mates, drums, bass, whatever, play along with others. Failing that Trio + (without trying to sound like a stuck record), you know that saying 'dance like nobody is watching'? Same. It's not perfect but you can plug headphones in and play like nobody is listening. Make all your mistakes there, eventually you find out what works / what doesn't. 

drpbier

Wow, hadn't heard of that? How would you incorporate that into a rig?

drpbier

Oh, should have said...I don't want to jam with others as I don't feel comfortable enough and wouldn't want to do pentatonic runs over blues progressions. I can imagine getting lost doing a Steve Cropper or Leo Nocentelli groove (badly)

Roland

I’ve never thought as Steve Cropper and Leo Nocentelli as having similar styles. Consequently I’d take different approaches to them. For Cropper I’d start by playing along with the record. For Nocentelli I’d start with a metronome or a drum machine until I’d got up to speed (I don’t strum as fast as Leo). Next, for both of them, I’d do what you want to avoid, and play with other people. Don’t worry about solo runs. Only guitarists think they’re important. Stick with the rhythm, that’s what other players want guitarists to do. They probably won’t feel comfortable either. Playing together will build confidence.

The advantages of playing with other people include listening to them rather than just yourself, and reacting to their playing. You then introduce ebb and flow into the intensity of your playing. You can then experiment with what you’re playing. Maybe simplifying down to fewer notes, or fewer strings (When playing with others you don’t need to play as much content as you do playing solo). Maybe playing in different places on the neck. 

I’ve seen amateur bands where the members seem to be playing at the same time, rather than playing together. Playing at the same time might be technically correct, but it’s emotionally dead. 

LastMantra

I just use a looper myself. 

BillDL

drpbier said:

Wow, hadn't heard of that? How would you incorporate that into a rig?

Presumably you are talking about the Digitech Trio+ ?

This is a device that allows you to play a basic and unadorned chord progression.  It "listens" and figures out the key or tonal centre of the progression and can identify major, minor, 7th, etc chords as you play your progression.  It then plays back a bass and drum accompaniment that can be speeded up and slowed down, or modified to adjust to different genres of music.  You can play your guitar over the "backing track" and use the looper function to lay down and remember your accompaniment parts.  You really need a clean amp for this because a distorted amp will distort the drums and bass groove, so you would have any pedal effects before the device and turn them on as needed while playing along with the track.

The same is true of a looper pedal.  They come in varying complexities from basic one button one volume knob mini pedals with minimal LED indicators to tell you where you are in a loop, right through to multi-button devices with multiple memory banks and useful screens.  The principle is the same for all.  Press the button to start recording what you play, and press it again at the end of the last bar just as you want it to end and loop into the start.  Timing is crucial.  It will play back your loop endlessly.  You can press the switch at exactly the right time as the loop starts and record a new track, and keep repeating this process (swapping instruments if you wish) to build up a multi-layered track that you can then just play along with.  If you mess up you can undo the last overdub track.  Because your button presses have to be bang on the beat to avoid a glitch each time the loop ends and starts again, it is very useful to have a display that shows you the progress of the loop so you can get ready.  The most basic cheap ones (that are mostly just copies of the original TC Electronic Ditto) just have a coloured LED that tells you whether you are in playthrough or "record" mode and you have to count the bars yourself.  The TC Electronic Ditto+ (Plus) is the same format as the basic Ditto pedal but it has an added (and extremely useful) progress screen, you can save 99 loop sessions, and you can connect it by USB cable to a coputer and copy WAV audio files into or from the device.  The same principle applies regarding a clean amp.  If the amp is overdriven it will overdrive the whole track as well as your playthrough, so you need to have it last in the chain of effects pedals.  There are obviously different brands and types with varying functions, and some more complex and expensive "modelling" devices incorporate loopers, but the basic principles of pressing (a) button(s) at the right time are much the same.

Both of the above are useful tools that allow you to practice playing along with a track of some sort, but they are still quite "mechanical" in feel and don't allow the looseness of playing with other live instruments.

flying_pie

Jam with others. I never took lessons and I'm sure my music theory is rubbish compared to yours but I've learned to do that. While theory definitely helps you can't teach getting up and giving it a go without just getting up and giving it a go.

I found a great source was open mic nights. Not just getting up but when everyone has done their bit and chats over a couple of beers then you decide to get up and try something you've never rehearsed with someone you've only just met.

It's terrifying but great fun to just think "f**k it", take a risk and hope it works but not lose it when it doesn't. If you sort of know a solo and are forced to get through it under pressure then you learn loads about how you impovise. Same with playing rhythm for someone who might have a slightly different grove to you. It really forces you to listen and adapt.

When you've done enough of it then is easy easier to just play and lose yourself. It's a state of mind. Not a technique

Murray_B

There's no substitute for playing music with other people - it's what makes it music, creates connections, friendships and helps you make something greater than the sum of it's parts. If you can find a way, try to make it happen. 

blobb

BillDL said:

... but they are still quite "mechanical" in feel and don't allow the looseness of playing with other live instruments.

Ha, have you heard the bass player in Trio? I'm sure he did a load of acid or something!

- fortunately you can turn him down, or push the simplify button to just get roots.

I play into Trio (any old nonsense usually, I like to give it a challenge) and send the bass/drums out to monitors. Then I'll try and make something up that goes with the rhythm. That goes to amp. i usually stay clean on amp and use pedals on the guitar, but you can 4cable it via the f/x loop if you want to use your amp drive.

I find the drummer is really good because it selects from a pool of sampled grooves, if you create a longish loop, it will fill and roll, even switch from hats to ride. That's as good as it gets for me - closest to the real thing without the drunkeness.

but you don't need an amp at all, it's got headphones out and crude distortion 'effect' built in if you need it. Thats why i suggested it. You can practice away in near silence until you get comfortable. You can 'sequence' song parts if you want to try re-creating actual stuff that sounds good. it does a good job of tempo matching the parts.

I exclusively use Trio now. And I record / video everything, because you get better if you watch yourself doing stupid stuff.

But yes, play with others, play in front of others, play standing up, play in front of a mirror, play with your eyes closed, and most important: listen to music you like. A lot. Analyse it, what do you like? What do you like about it?

...and remember, you have a right hand as well as a left hand. 

BillDL

@blobb ; I only have the original Trio without the looper feature of the + version.  I bought it 2nd-hand for a very attractive price.  I have just used it plugged into the amp and with effects in front of it purely as a means to create an instant backing in a variety of styles as a callenge to improvise against, but not with a view to recording anything.  I agree about the bass line it sometimes creates being a bit too avant garde and busy such that it has to be simplified.  I have a footswitch for it but i haven't had a whole lot of time to explore its full functionality.

sev112

I read something a few years back that I tried and it worked reasonably well for me.  You record yourself, even just with a phone - it doesn’t need to be Hugh quality - for no more than 5 minutes EVERY day for a month, BUT YOU DONT LISTEN BACK TO IT - until you get to a month, then you listen back to it all.

what typically happens is that it just feels at the time that you play the same thing, in the same groove, and style and the same licks.  But over that month when you listen back you hear and “see” the actual progression and development and start to see the unique to you little mannerisms etc.  

and the other thing that happens is that you start to see the additional things you have added in since the beginning  of the mont, the things that you’ve been practising or copying or listening to.  You start to see and hear the things that you play quite well and have improved and the ones that you still don’t like and what to remove from your general play.   

I used iPhone music memos but I think that app has been discontinued now

stufisher

If you really just want to focus on playing along to/with music then the easiest way is to just find a range of backing music on YouTube.

I frequently use AUsher tracks and Elevated Jam Tracks ... they're consistently well put together, usually 7 to 10 mins long, they cover all modes/scales and show ideas for solos.

I also find Wikiloops quite useful because it has tons of variety of backing music, written by all types of musicians from every genre, with or without lyrics. You can select which instruments you want to hear and which genre of music and it lets you loop the backing music (usually about 5 mins per original piece) ... so it really let's you improvise and play real free-form stuff if you like.

I also use Ultimate Guitar to check out a basic chord sequence or tabs and then play along to the track (usually it's a YT clip that you access from within the app). It's not perfect but it's a start.

When I started playing two years ago I quickly discovered that technology and access to music/learning was unrecognisable to me. Within a month or so I became conversant with the above and I have stuck with them as my chosen sources of music but I do appreciate that it might not be suitable for you or how you operate.

Bottom line is that there is SO much out there you just need to try stuff out and make your own judgement about what works best for you. 

Enjoy the ride!

drpbier

Thanks all - lots of food for thought here. I think I'll start with looping and take it from there!