New to being in a band, some questions

PLOP

Hey,

I've been playing guitar for a good while now. Probably a touch over 12 years, pretty much all self taught except a few months in the middle where I had a lesson once a week. I’m definitely not as good as I could be for the time I’ve been playing. 

However, I’ve recently joined a band and I’m having a great time! But there’s a few things I can’t quite get to grips with. 

First, the band was established before I joined. They have an EP out, which I learned how to play entirely and that’s fine. I can play along to that playing my parts for practice and that works well. But we have a handful of new songs that aren’t recorded yet. I know the riffs and the general skeleton of the songs but I’m not sure how I’m supposed to practice these ones without something to use as a reference point. The structures are also still pretty fluid and not much of the songs are “tied down” so I feel like if I practice one riff in a certain way, it might not be relevant in future if we change the idea. 

Second, I suck at coming up with new riffs. I can think of good stuff to go over the top of riffs, I can play super distorted droning stuff, I can approximate a riff based on an idea someone hums or sings but coming up with my own just doesn’t happen. Has anyone got any advice here? The band also plays in a tuning I don’t usually use so I’m not familiar with scale shapes etc, even though that’s hardly an excuse because in tunings I am familiar with I still can’t write riffs. 

If I learn songs in that tuning or the band’s style, I can get those down pretty tight but the ideas I’ve learned for that song don’t transfer to writing my own material. 

Thanks guys! 

DannyP

Can you let us know the style of music and whether you're the only guitar player in the band? What's the line up?

PLOP

DannyP said:

Can you let us know the style of music and whether you're the only guitar player in the band? What's the line up?

Metal band, there’s another guitarist who is also the singer. Then bass and drums too. 

The style is hard to describe, somewhere between Tool, Soundgarden and Deftones. I’ve learned a few songs of these bands but like I said, I struggle to transfer these ideas to original riffs. 

Roland

How are they expecting you to contribute to the band? Are they asking you to come up with new riffs, or are they wanting you to fill out the sound by doubling on existing riffs, or a bit of both?

stickyfiddle

PLOP said:

 

First, the band was established before I joined. They have an EP out, which I learned how to play entirely and that’s fine. I can play along to that playing my parts for practice and that works well. But we have a handful of new songs that aren’t recorded yet. I know the riffs and the general skeleton of the songs but I’m not sure how I’m supposed to practice these ones without something to use as a reference point. The structures are also still pretty fluid and not much of the songs are “tied down” so I feel like if I practice one riff in a certain way, it might not be relevant in future if we change the idea. 

Second, I suck at coming up with new riffs. I can think of good stuff to go over the top of riffs, I can play super distorted droning stuff, I can approximate a riff based on an idea someone hums or sings but coming up with my own just doesn’t happen. Has anyone got any advice here? The band also plays in a tuning I don’t usually use so I’m not familiar with scale shapes etc, even though that’s hardly an excuse because in tunings I am familiar with I still can’t write riffs. 

 

1 - make recordings in the rehearsal studio. Stereo mix off the PA, Zoom handheld widget or just on your phone as voice memos. Anything is better than nothing. But as you've rightly noted, you also need to pin down structures. If you're not planning on improvising everything all the time you will need to agree on how any given song goes. 

2 - this is harder but not impossible. Personally I'd suggest writing riffs on your own then bringing them into the band. Just noodle on one or 2 strings (again - record it on a DAW or phone so you can listen back) and wait for something that sounds good to come out. Play as many different things as you can. 

What tunings are we talking here? You don't have to be in the same guitar tuning as the rest of the band - just make sure what you're playing is in the same key! 

PLOP

Roland said:

How are they expecting you to contribute to the band? Are they asking you to come up with new riffs, or are they wanting you to fill out the sound by doubling on existing riffs, or a bit of both?

Initially it’s to beef out the sound, as the previous material was recorded with two guitars so live with only one sounded thin and weak. I’ve been able to add my own spin to a lot of the songs too which has gone down well with them.  Going forward I’m not sure if there’s expectation of co-writing but I don’t want to feel like I’m not contributing ideas. 

PLOP

@stickyfiddle ;

ive made some phone recordings but I’m struggling with the ones that are very much bare bones. Obviously no one is expecting a full song to just be done overnight but I want to make sure I’m doing the best I can so was more looking for tips on how to do this. 

As for recording into my computer, I’ve done that a lot when trying to write my own music before. None of it good or memorable but I get the gist of it. I’ll work on this. 

Tunings we use are AEADGB - so a nice basic drop tuning (my favourite tuning is CGCFAD) so I can use that but the scale shapes on that G throw me off. “Regular” Drop A has it as a Gb. 

Roland

stickyfiddle said:

… make recordings in the rehearsal studio …

This is essential. It doesn’t just give you something to practice against. Listening back you can hear how what you’re playing, and the way you’re playing it, fits into the song. We do it and share between ourselves on the band’s WhatsApp account.

stickyfiddle said:

... You don't have to be in the same guitar tuning as the rest of the band …

A two guitar band usually benefits from having the two instruments playing similar, but not identical parts. I’d take a second guitar tuned to a string sequence that your fingers understand, and use that for all the new material. It could be your favourite CGCFAD. If you really need the low A then AEADGbB (three steps down from CGCFAD), instead of their AEADGB.

On creating riffs, I’m tempted to say don’t worry. It will come automatically as your ears and fingers get used to the new songs. Playing along with rehearsal recordings will give you the opportunity to experiment with variations to existing riffs. These are useful to provide variety within a song. You will naturally branch out from there into more extensive variations which eventually become riffs in their own right.

Enjoy the ride.

stickyfiddle

^^ what @Roland said is good. 

My point on tunings is that you don't need to be the same as the other guy. After all, a mandolin, acoustic guitar, violin and bass all use different tunings and they work great for bluegrass. Quite a few bands have someone on a baritone (A or B standard) and someone else in regular E-e Standard. There's no right or wrong here, so I'd stick with what you know if you can - that might even help the band sound better as you won't be tempted to play exactly the same thing as the other guy*


* Not mirroring parts is something a lot of folks struggle with when new to playing with others but a lot of what makes good bands sound good is having everyone playing different but complementing parts. I'm having the same issues with our keyboarder at the moment; she's playing from scores that are trying to replicate a whole song for a single pianist. I don't need her playing the guitar riff because that's my job, but I can't play a simple organ part at the same time! 

Roland

True. When we learn a new covers song I go to rehearsal knowing it’s chord structure and any motifs, but don’t decide which chord shapes I’m going to play until I know what keys and bass want to play.

digitalkettle

stickyfiddle said:

...I'm having the same issues with our keyboarder at the moment; she's playing from scores that are trying to replicate a whole song for a single pianist. I don't need her playing the guitar riff because that's my job, but I can't play a simple organ part at the same time!

Been in this situation a few times...that look of terror as you ask them to put away the score and forget everything they think they know.

"I just want to hear a bit of Hammond or Rhodes...maybe thin out that multi-layered strings+timpani with 'DX7 orchestra hit' split-keyboard patch" 

horse

digitalkettle said:

stickyfiddle said:

...I'm having the same issues with our keyboarder at the moment; she's playing from scores that are trying to replicate a whole song for a single pianist. I don't need her playing the guitar riff because that's my job, but I can't play a simple organ part at the same time!

Been in this situation a few times...that look of terror as you ask them to put away the score and forget everything they think they know.

"I just want to hear a bit of Hammond or Rhodes...maybe thin out that multi-layered strings+timpani with 'DX7 orchestra hit' split-keyboard patch" 

 Lol - I put one of those big orchestra layers  patches behind a live cover of Run to the Hills once - epic timpani and cymbal crashes on the chorus!

digitalkettle

horse said:

digitalkettle said:

stickyfiddle said:

...I'm having the same issues with our keyboarder at the moment; she's playing from scores that are trying to replicate a whole song for a single pianist. I don't need her playing the guitar riff because that's my job, but I can't play a simple organ part at the same time!

Been in this situation a few times...that look of terror as you ask them to put away the score and forget everything they think they know.

"I just want to hear a bit of Hammond or Rhodes...maybe thin out that multi-layered strings+timpani with 'DX7 orchestra hit' split-keyboard patch" 

 Lol - I put one of those big orchestra layers  patches behind a live cover of Run to the Hills once - epic timpani and cymbal crashes on the chorus!

I'd be like a Phoenix Nights cabaret act looking for all lyrical opportunities to get sound effects in