Are 000 Guitars Shorter Scale

guitarjack66

I saw this online and hadn't heard it before. I believe I once had a Takamine 000 and it did seem quite comfortable but didnt know why.

Tannin

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

Ok,thanks. At least I am in the right ballpark of sizes then!

goldtop

In the nerdy spreadsheet I did (trying to educate myself on all of these weird size naming conventions), I saw that 000 and 00 guitars seemed to have 24 7/8 scale length. Same as Taylor GC.

GTC

They can be but it isn't necessarily so. The term 000 refers to the body size rather than the scale length. An 000 guitar can also have either 12 or 14 frets from nut to body.

Dave_Mc

Tannin said:

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

I might be misremembering here, but isn't there even one of the Martin models where those codenames break down? 

camf

I think Martin 12 fret models are full length scale but still 000 rather than OM. It’s all joyfully chaotic. 

Tannin

Doctor? 

guitarjack66

camf said:

I think Martin 12 fret models are full length scale but still 000 rather than OM. It’s all joyfully chaotic. 

So OM and 000 are more or less the same? Possible differences?

Tannin

In the Martin world, 000 and OM *are* the same, except for scale length. I hadn't heard that 12-fretters break this rule, but this is Martin, so who knows?

ICBM

guitarjack66 said:

Are 000 Guitars Shorter Scale

No.

Or not unless you think of 24-3/4" as "short scale"... which it isn't, it's just the shorter of the two most common scale lengths, but is used as the 'standard' by many makers, eg Gibson. 'Short scale' really means 24" or shorter.

Ricjo

Dave_Mc said:

Tannin said:

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

I might be misremembering here, but isn't there even one of the Martin models where those codenames break down? 

Yes, the Martin 000-15: it’s long scale and 1.11/16” nut width. Bizarrely. No one knows why either. 

Dave_Mc

Ricjo said:

Dave_Mc said:

Tannin said:

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

I might be misremembering here, but isn't there even one of the Martin models where those codenames break down? 

Yes, the Martin 00015: it’s long scale AND 1 11/16” nut width. Bizarrely. No one knows why either. 

Thanks!

Brize

Ricjo said:

Dave_Mc said:

Tannin said:

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

I might be misremembering here, but isn't there even one of the Martin models where those codenames break down? 

Yes, the Martin 000-15: it’s long scale and 1.11/16” nut width. Bizarrely. No one knows why either. 

Wasn't the 000-16GT the same?

Ricjo

Brize said:

Ricjo said:

Dave_Mc said:

Tannin said:

Often, yes. And often no. 

Martin 000s are short scale, while the exact same body with a full-length scale is termed an OM. But that's just one company. Every other company does its own thing. They may or may not use the terms "000" and "OM", they may build all their models of this size full-scale, all of them short-scale, or any mix they please. 

I might be misremembering here, but isn't there even one of the Martin models where those codenames break down? 

Yes, the Martin 000-15: it’s long scale and 1.11/16” nut width. Bizarrely. No one knows why either. 

Wasn't the 000-16GT the same?

It could have been the case in the past, but am pretty certain the 15 is the only current anomaly in the Martin 000s.

malcolmkindness

Tannin said:

In the Martin world, 000 and OM *are* the same, except for scale length. I hadn't heard that 12-fretters break this rule, but this is Martin, so who knows?

This is incorrect, OM's have a 14 fret neck and 000's have a 12 fret neck and generally a slotted headstock. The scale length on 000's can be either long or short.

ICBM

malcolmkindness said:

This is incorrect, OM's have a 14 fret neck and 000's have a 12 fret neck and generally a slotted headstock. The scale length on 000's can be either long or short.

No, standard 000s usually have a 14-fret neck and a solid headstock too. Only very early ones and special editions have a 12-fret.

https://www.martinguitar.com/guitars/standard-series/000-28.html

Tannin is correct, they are more or less the same apart from scale length, often neck width and bridge string spacing, and in some cases bracing position.

guitarjack66

As I'm not going to be anywhere near a Martin,nor Taylor unfortunately,I was hoping for some kind of industry standard. It seems there isn't really.

Fishboy7

As I understand it the only difference between OM and a 000 is scale length. So you can whack a capo on an OM and it's effectively a 000

drofluf

malcolmkindness said:

Tannin said:

In the Martin world, 000 and OM *are* the same, except for scale length. I hadn't heard that 12-fretters break this rule, but this is Martin, so who knows?

This is incorrect, OM's have a 14 fret neck and 000's have a 12 fret neck and generally a slotted headstock. The scale length on 000's can be either long or short.

Don’t think that’s right. My 000-15M was a 14 fretter with a solid headstock, the 000-15SM is 12/fret and slotted

bertie

guitarjack66 said:

As I'm not going to be anywhere near a Martin,nor Taylor unfortunately,I was hoping for some kind of industry standard. It seems there isn't really.

there really isnt one,  potatoes pottaaatos and all that  -   the thing you need to do is take note of the specs (scale/fret join, body sizes) and compare that to something you actually know.