Bartel Starwood a review

chris78

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1348mqnssjhkk8/EB6C3649-6D07-4E29-9B0A-152E4E2A9C5A.heic?raw=1

I realise not everyone will be lucky enough to try one. Mark doesn't make many and they're very expensive. Even people with the cash will draw breath at parting with that kind of money on an amp.
Everyone has read @Wazmeister's musings, so I thought I'd add my own short review. For background, I owned a Roseland which is with another FTB member. I sold it after loving it in a bit of a strop and was regretting it as soon as I took the drive to meet it's new owner. To be honest though, this is the model I wanted - I don't use trem, it's a little lighter at 42lbs compared with 49lbs and despite the great master volume on the Roseland, 28 watts is more suited to what I do - studio for rehearsals and mainly pub gigs, generally mic'd to a PA. Since selling the Roseland I've gone through a Tone King Imperial, a Carr SuperBee (which I still have and adore), a Two Rock Studio Signature, a Victory V40 Duchess and a Two Rock Burnside (which I still have and is sort of for sale). I collected it from Waz last Tuesday so it seemed a good time to post this, but will update as I explore it more. Last night was the first use in a band setting.

Firstly, what is it?
As a huge fan of Mark Bartel's Tone Kings, I see this as the culmination of his 30 odd years of work. The very best amp he's capable of making with no expense spared. He's moved away from his Ironman attenuator (the cynic in me says because he doesn't have the licence to make it as it belongs to TK) to a master volume. The amp isn't a two channel design like his best models - the Imperial or the Sky King, which do blackface and tweed in one amp. This has a wider range of tones and in theory is blackface, tweed, Marshall and Vox in a single box through a single channel design. Many people have said it's not bad value having 4 boutique amps if you think of it like that, but we'll come onto that.

What's great about it?
The build quality is off the scale. The tweed alone feels like it's been painted onto the amp not fabric that's been applied. The switches and knobs are beautifully crafted - think of this as PRS/Huber quality in an amp.
No YouTube video or review can explain the way the cabinet design fills a room in a way even great amps like the Imperial don't. I don't mean fill a room in terms of it being loud (but it's plenty loud enough with the master on 10 that you'd get thrown out of a pub gig). If you're in a two guitarist band like me, it's a great way of being heard in the mix, yet it's not at all trebly and certainly never harsh. 
The ability to go from blackface to tweed to Marshall to Vox is damned useful if you're in a covers band like me and the music you're playing can range from Buddy Holly and the Beatles at one gig to the Foo Fighters and Hole the next. 
Despite my cynicism, the master volume takes the Ironman and any other attenuator I've ever used and laughs at it. Does it sound better loud - yup - doesn't everything? Does the fundamental tone significantly change, even if you're using it at super low volumes - not to my ears.
It takes pedals brilliantly - most owners wouldn't want to use pedals given the drive tones in the amp, but I still like at least a boost to push the amp personally.

What's not
If you actually want to switch between Marshall and Vox tones, say, you can only do that by manually changing the treble and bass controls. That involves moving settings around mid-gig potentially. If Mark could invent some sort of switching, which I'm not sure is possible, it'd be way more useable.
The other owners may disagree, but I think it's really a tweed amp with added versatility, not a 4 in 1. If I'm honest, I prefer my Carr for blackface tones for example. The Carr has more sparkle that I'd associate with what I want from a great blackface amp. The tweed setting is the best I've ever heard - see the shootout I did with another member's lazy j and the Roseland - the Bartel was just better, even though we could play with the settings and get it dialled in to be close to the j (but the Bartel still sounded better!).
It's a bulky amp and it still feels heavy to carry. Maybe the handle needs wearing in, but it's a heavier 42lbs than my studio signature which was way easier to carry.
I think it's a better amp with single coils than humbuckers - I say this because the amp colours the tone. The brilliance of the Two Rock SS is that it doesn't - it's an epic clean platform, but it's hopeless for drive tones because it's loud enough to fill Wembley. The brilliance of the Bartel is that it colours the tone and makes everything sound better, but I personally think that helps single coils more than humbuckers. 
If you're a metalhead, don't bother. 

Summary
This amp is never going to get a fair hearing from most people. Some people simply will never be able to afford one, other people would rather spend their money on something you touch and hold - like a great guitar. I've bought both my Bartels on this forum from people who couldn't justify having this amount of money tied up in an amp, even though they both have great gear collections. The law of diminishing returns does apply - a lazy j for example which is a stunning amp would be cheap enough in comparison to allow you to buy a Fender American Vintage guitar as well for the same money. Having been through a number of very high end amps since selling my Roseland though, nothing really compares and I think the only amps that are in the same class are Two Rocks, which in themselves won't be suited for everyone. If you're merely recording the amp or playing at home, I don't think the massive investment that Bartel or Two Rocks represent are justified. These are amps to use in a band situation for the cut and tone they bring. Recording them is great, but it misses the point. No, they won't sound better through compressed YouTube than a cheaper amp. If you do play out though and want to hear yourself in the mix and have a depth of warm almost velvety tone, nothing compares to Bartel. I've said it before, but this will make your guitar sound better so if it's a choice, buy a cheaper (but good quality guitar) and spend the extra on one of these. It's not a future classic, it's already a classic and there simply isn't another amp in the world (and I've been through a few) that can compare. If you have the budget, you understand what it does and you get its strengths and weaknesses, you should audition one. 

idiotwindow

chris78 said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1348mqnssjhkk8/EB6C3649-6D07-4E29-9B0A-152E4E2A9C5A.heic?raw=1

This amp is never going to get a fair hearing from most people. Some people simply will never be able to afford one...

An excellent review, Chris, though I'm not sure why you think the amp won't get a fair hearing (nor do I understand why the price of these amps seems to garner such attention)? Of course, not everyone has that kind of money to spare but it's in the same financial ballpark as a team built CS Strat and cheaper than a new R9 or Collings acoustic. It's not a Bugatti or a yacht.

chris78

idiotwindow said:

chris78 said:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/z1348mqnssjhkk8/EB6C3649-6D07-4E29-9B0A-152E4E2A9C5A.heic?raw=1

This amp is never going to get a fair hearing from most people. Some people simply will never be able to afford one...

An excellent review, Chris, though I'm not sure why you think the amp won't get a fair hearing (nor do I understand why the price of these amps seems to garner such attention)? Of course, not everyone has that kind of money to spare but it's in the same financial ballpark as a team built CS Strat and cheaper than a new R9 or Collings acoustic. It's not a Bugatti or a yacht.

I think Guitarist described it as the Bugatti of the amp world. You're quite right though. Peach have a Collings electric in today at £8k and recently took delivery of some £7k two rocks. A high end Magnatone or Soldano are £4k, but for whatever reason, Waz's thread was full of people grumbling about the price. 

DartmoorHedgehog

Yes, more than I would want to spend on an amp, but still interesting to hear opinions and reviews of the really high-end stuff.

Interesting that you say expensive amps are for gigging only - I've heard lots of people say the opposite, that they keep their posh amps for studio use where you can hear the special nuances and use something more mundane like a HRD or DSL for live.

HandwrittenHero

Unless I'm looking at the wrong thread https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/235884/bartel-starwood-a-review-initial-thoughts there's probably about 1/2 a page total out of 5 which covers price and to be honest I wouldn't call it grumbling but an addressing of the elephant in the room similar to how Waz did in his initial post or in line with how you're doing so in your OP.

FWIW though, I do think price is an inescapable factor in the same way as the weight is for an AC30 or volume is when talking a 1959SLP. 

Benm39

Splendid write up (as was @Wazmeister s too).

A solid investment if you've the funds and deserving of high praise. 

Wazmeister

Here is Chris' Bartel

chris78

DartmoorHedgehog said:

Yes, more than I would want to spend on an amp, but still interesting to hear opinions and reviews of the really high-end stuff.

Interesting that you say expensive amps are for gigging only - I've heard lots of people say the opposite, that they keep their posh amps for studio use where you can hear the special nuances and use something more mundane like a HRD or DSL for live.

All about opinions of course. If you’re talking about the audience, let’s face, they don’t give a shiny one in a covers band about tone or even if you play a few bum notes. For me, I want to hear what I’m playing and that cut is important to me and I’m way more obsessed about tone than I should be. Whether you can hear the nuances when recorded is another debate, but most people are listening to music through their iPhone/Samsung into a pair of non hifi quality headphones. With such a compressed sound, I doubt the nuances of tone matter.
As I said, for me it’s about feeling the sound as much as hearing it if that makes sense

chris78

HandwrittenHero said:

FWIW though, I do think price is an inescapable factor in the same way as the weight is for an AC30 or volume is when talking a 1959SLP. 

I think the bartel is particularly picked on. It’s not even the most expensive out there (though it is a lot of dough).

Benm39

And not that looks should really come into it,  but I do think these look splendid too, ditto the brown magnatone amps.  Just lovely. 

Wazmeister

Fantastic review Chris !

I think you’ve nailed it more succinctly that I did
The tone, construction, feel and sound of the Bartel are outstanding.

I actually think that they represent decent value for money; you’d struggle to get 3 amps (tweed, Marshall, BF) of this quality for even the new price.

And I agree about it being basically a ‘tweed’ amp; this was a huge factor in my sale. Still, i cannot lie, ive missed seeing it and playing it !

Enjoy mate, you’re a top man and im delighted for you. 

chris78

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eziabqrh8xd301e/0F8C413F-9C54-4EBF-8DD1-9D2FABF4523E.jpeg?raw=1

So after another week, I’m definitely happiest on the tweed setting with treble about 5.5, bass around 5 and using volume to control drive.

I think the Bartel is happiest with brighter guitars at this setting. With my 594 or meq, it’s a bit muddy for my ears, whereas plug a strat, tele or in this case modern eagle in and the warmth of the amp enhances the tone in a very special way. It’s a luscious rich velvety tone the keeps the character of the guitar, but enhances it. 

Oddly the origin revival drive, which is supposed to be great through any amp sounds lousy, whereas through my Carr it sounds brilliant, A Wampler Tumnus on the other hand to push the amp into overdrive compliments it brilliantly.

fretfinder

Nice one Chris, sounds like a sweet amp, enjoy! 

fusionman

What amp for play only at home s good enough at this level without spending this ammount of money?

chris78

fusionman said:

What amp for play only at home s good enough at this level without spending this ammount of money?

They don’t exist
The Bartel is in its own league

Nerine

Removed. 

Boromedic

chris78 said:

fusionman said:

What amp for play only at home s good enough at this level without spending this ammount of money?

They don’t exist
The Bartel is in its own league

Did you ever play a Bartel era Tone King Chris? If so how do they compare? Thanks

chris78

Boromedic said:

chris78 said:

fusionman said:

What amp for play only at home s good enough at this level without spending this ammount of money?

They don’t exist
The Bartel is in its own league

Did you ever play a Bartel era Tone King Chris? If so how do they compare? Thanks

Yeah. Owned a royalist, 3 imperials, 2 falcons and a sky king.
The bartel is a decent upgrade on anything Bartel made under his tone king brand - the richness of tone is greater, the master volume is better than the Ironman and it has a fill the room quality than as good as the tone kings were, they didn’t have.

Boromedic

Yeah, been wondering as I have picked up a used Sky King and whilst the Ironman is good a decent master would've been better I think! It's currently with Chris at Rift as it needs some TLC so waiting to get it back before I make a final judgement on it. TBF it did sound great despite the issues.

It makes me wonder about the new Bartels and if they'd be an upgrade because the build quality on the Sky King is insane, so thanks for the feedback. Currently also trialling a Carr Rambler which I felt was better for what I'm after than the Sky King. Once I have em both back it's shoot out time!!

Food for thought with the Bartels though..... Despite the cost, sometimes I think the amp makes the most difference, so considering a trip to Coda.

Thanks again

57Deluxe

I wish the external aesthetics matched the level of art/craftsmanship/aesthetcs of the internals.... I simply don't like the look of them.

idiotwindow

57Deluxe said:

I wish the external aesthetics matched the level of art/craftsmanship/aesthetcs of the internals.... I simply don't like the look of them.

I know what you mean. They look beautifully made and the aesthetics wouldn't put me off owning one but stylewise they seem to occupy some weird "art deco meets the Jetsons with Fender tweed thrown in" space. Not dissimilar to the Swart Amps style book but less extreme in their fugliness. The Bartel finished in black looks better IMO.