PAT testing

Roland

What’s everyone doing? In the past, before Covid, we used a local electrician at mates rates. We need to restart, and I’m tempted to get a test device and do it myself. 

I’ve heard that some venues who are new to the game don’t understand the legislation, and are insisting on unnecessary paperwork. What’s your experience?

Danny1969

I do all our gear plus the gear for various other bands. I use a Fluke tester and use stickers and also email them a spreadsheet listing the date, the  item, the test results and pass / fail

It's all a lot of bollocks really. There isn't actually a law that says anything has to be PAT tested but it's recommended as it may help defend your position should something go wrong. There's no legal requirement to do it every year or even keep a record and plaster things with PAT stickers .. but again it's advised should something go wrong. 

So I play the game as any band who does wedding venues and corporate functions has to generally mail in the PAT and PLI before the gig. 

It's just an external visual thing and a basic wiring thing really. A PAT tester can't tell you something will stay safe even when it passes and a battery PAT tester may well pass an item who's chassis earth is hanging on by a thread. Some of the bigger units can damage devices in the insulation test as they can put out over 1KV

So be a competent person, inspect it visually, run the test, keep a record and sticker the gear up and that will generally be enough to keep everyone happy. 

maltingsaudio

If you can judge yourself as a competent person, or more importantly have the insurance to back it up, then buying a PAT test machine, working out what your doing and why, and keeping records of everything you test is the cheapest and easiest way of doing it.

As Danny says the PAT thing is mostly bollocks but as you say a lot of venues say no green sticker no gig.

It is a good thing that you inspect your gear at least once properly every year, and also have an idea of what PAT is all about. The reason is if you get someone to do it for you, then you’ll know when he’s ripping you off testing stuff which doesn’t need testing.  For example your pedal board, the pedals don’t fall under PAT however the power supply does.

lustycourtier

I’m a Pat tester and get sick of venues not having a clue what it actually means. It’s good practice to test and record. Nothing else, yet venues ask for certificates.

ESBlonde

It is the testers view or opinion as to what actual test should be applied to any device. Anything brand new is deemed exempt because it can’t be sold unless up to snuff. Competent person is the key phrase. We’ve had on venue question everything including the PAT “certificate” and schedules and PL insurance. A site meeting resolved the issue but sometimes committees or jobsworths become a pain. Council owned union staffed venues have a reputation but they are not the only ones. There is one local venue here that upsets bands and patrons to the point that they will eventually run out of custom, bloody minded committees mean we’ll but don’t understand.

jpfamps

Visual inspection is a key part of PAT.

The last gig I did where PAT was requested was at a posh hotel in West London.

I plugged something into a 6 way wall socket in the venue and the whole unit fell out from the wall!

The then plugged into a 4 way wall socket on was told only 2 of the sockeks worked correctly.

Kittyfrisk

Danny1969 said:

I do all our gear plus the gear for various other bands. I use a Fluke tester and use stickers and also email them a spreadsheet listing the date, the  item, the test results and pass / fail

It's all a lot of bollocks really. There isn't actually a law that says anything has to be PAT tested but it's recommended as it may help defend your position should something go wrong. There's no legal requirement to do it every year or even keep a record and plaster things with PAT stickers .. but again it's advised should something go wrong. 

So I play the game as any band who does wedding venues and corporate functions has to generally mail in the PAT and PLI before the gig. 

It's just an external visual thing and a basic wiring thing really. A PAT tester can't tell you something will stay safe even when it passes and a battery PAT tester may well pass an item who's chassis earth is hanging on by a thread. Some of the bigger units can damage devices in the insulation test as they can put out over 1KV

So be a competent person, inspect it visually, run the test, keep a record and sticker the gear up and that will generally be enough to keep everyone happy. 

Spot on advice. I was Seaward trained & accredited years ago but the majority of testing ,stickering, paperwork & recording was all about an employers arse covering requirements & attitude to risk aversion.

ScreamingDave

I do all the PAT testing for our band.  I bought a Seaward tester for my company, and it comes with a link to an online course where you watch a Video, do a little test and then you can print yourself a certificate to say you're a copmpetent person.  That basically enables you to do PAT testing of your own stuff, but if you did want to do it for other people it'd be best to get City & Guilds training.

As many people have said, there's no legal requirement to PAT test, and not really any such thing as a PAT test certificate, but you are legally responsible for making sure your gear is safe, and PAT testing is a goes a long way towards that.

stratman3142

Resurrecting this old thread because I've recently encountered a couple of situations where I've received paperwork stating that PAT testing is required to use local halls for my music group meetings. BTW. I believe PAT has now been updated to Electrical Equipment Testing (EET).

I could gather the equipment together (most which is mine) and book a person to do the PAT testing. I'm currently up to about 50 to 60 items. This includes the PA, monitors, backline amps, but the bulk of it is the numerous mains extensions, IEC type leads and spares.

But then, I can't see how it would be easy to ensure 100% coverage, as it's a Jam Band type set up and someone might turn up with a new amplifier or extension lead etc

Can I really just buy a PAT test meter and do it myself? If so are there any recommendations for good meters.

The following is stated at the HSE site https://www.hse.gov.uk/electricity/faq-portable-appliance-testing.htm

"The person doing testing work needs to competent to do it. In many low-risk environments, a sensible (competent) member of staff can undertake visual inspections if they have enough knowledge and training. However, when undertaking combined inspection and testing, a greater level of knowledge and experience is needed, and the person will need:

• the right equipment to do the tests
• the ability to use this test equipment properly
• the ability to properly understand the test results"

I've got a degree in Electronics Engineering and I worked in the electronics industry for over 40 years culminating in engineering project management type roles, including overseeing product safety. But I don't have a piece of paper that says that I've undergone the specific training for PAT testing.

There appear to be a number of online courses for a little as about £40. But are these really legit?

ScreamingDave

I carry out all the PAT testing for my business.  Like you, I have a degree in engineering, so I just bought a PAT tester which came with a DVD course.  I spent an evening watching the DVD, then did a little online exam and printed off the certificate, which I now proudly have on display in our lobby at work. 

That’s enough to demonstrate your competence for the purposes of your own equipment tests.  I think if you were charging other people to test their kit then you’d be better off getting some more formal training, like City & Guilds, but essentially you wouldn’t gain anything more from it.  

The important thing, to my mind, is just having the nouse to know if something fails, did it fail because there’s really something wrong with it, e.g. no earth, or is it just that it’s a long cable and the earth resistance is actually acceptably high because it’s so long. Basically, I guess, knowing whether it’s safe to carry on using it or impound it, scrap it, or shoot it and burn the ashes. 

It really isn’t rocket science, as I’m sure you know, 

And at the end of the day, the acid test of your competence is that nobody uses dangerous kit and gets fried.  With your level of skill and experience, if you’re confident it’s OK, then it probably is. 

stratman3142

Many thanks @ScreamingDave.

Is there a PAT test meter you might recommend? Some are just pass/fail and I think I'd feel more certain that I'd got clear evidence if the meter actually presented the results of the measurement so I could create a spreadsheet of the recorded values. Also, I guess the meters have to be calibrated yearly.

Based on all that I'm still weighing up whether it's best to do it myself or pay someone else to do it.

Danny1969

Do it yourself because it's it needs doing every year and it's more hassle getting someone else to do it. As you know it doesn't need doing every year and you don't need stickers or a spreadsheet by law but we have to play the game because we need to have something to email a venue before the gig. 

I can send you one of my PAT excel sheets you can blank out and use if needed. 

ScreamingDave

I’ve got a Seaward Primetest, but I forget which number.  It gives a numerical value to the insulation resistance, resistance to earth and current leakage, and it tells you if it passes or fails according to standard criteria.  It automatically tests for class I, class II and ext leads. 

stratman3142

Danny1969 said:

Do it yourself because it's it needs doing every year and it's more hassle getting someone else to do it. As you know it doesn't need doing every year and you don't need stickers or a spreadsheet by law but we have to play the game because we need to have something to email a venue before the gig. 

I can send you one of my PAT excel sheets you can blank out and use if needed. 

Many thanks for that. I've actually got an example spreadsheet from a friend's son who does PAT testing, but he unfortunately lives too far away to do the testing himself. And I love doing spreadsheets

maltingsaudio

I use a Robin PAT tester which gives me a read as well as pass or fail. The read out is useful because it gives you clue as to why it fails and how close to passing it is. Quite often I’ll find the item is within a smidge of passing and a quick fix will sort it . This is why I charge per hour for PAT testing as opposed to per item. The more you do it the more you understand the procedures and wrinkles.

The ball ache of testing is the paperwork and this is where you have to make a choice between buying the software and a printer, which is often really expensive but saves a lot of effort, or doing it all by hand.

Knowing which class of equipment your testing and how to use the test equipment to test that item,is the important part of the testing, but not beyond the wit of anyone. This is the only qualification you need to be a competent PAT tester. No degree or other certification is necessary. 

I would point out that you can’t sue a machine , so it is down to you if something goes wrong therefor some form of PLI is useful to have. Having said that the PAT test is not unlike an MOT on your car, an item can pass on the day and fail a couple of days later through no fault of the tester.

Fez

The guy who has been doing our PAT at work has even stickered the nice which I thought was a bit weird.

ICBM

Fez said:

The guy who has been doing our PAT at work has even stickered the nice which I thought was a bit weird.

Do you mean mice?

If so, he either doesn’t know what he’s doing, or does but is deliberately falsifying the number of items in order to increase his fee.

Only mains-powered equipment and cables (if separate) need to, or in fact can, be tested.

Kittyfrisk

ICBM said:

Fez said:

The guy who has been doing our PAT at work has even stickered the nice which I thought was a bit weird.

Do you mean mice?

If so, he either doesn’t know what he’s doing, or does but is deliberately falsifying the number of items in order to increase his fee.

Only mains-powered equipment and cables (if separate) need to, or in fact can, be tested.

This. Greed or incompetence. Don't know which is worse.

Sporky

I pat tested the dogs. Sprocket was ambivalent but Nozzle leaned in, and gave me a reproachful look when I stopped. 

Kittyfrisk

Sporky said:

I pat tested the dogs. Sprocket was ambivalent but Nozzle leaned in, and gave me a reproachful look when I stopped. 

Flash tests are hilarious when testing dogs. You only get one go though...

p90fool

ICBM said:

Fez said:

The guy who has been doing our PAT at work has even stickered the nice which I thought was a bit weird.

Do you mean mice?

He might have meant The Nice, and to be fair Keith Emerson was pretty dangerous onstage.