Guitar kits/Guitar Fabric Rickenbacker 12 string build thread

drofluf

Anybody got any experience with something like this?

https://www.gear4music.com/Guitar-and-Bass/Guitarworks-Solo-Cutaway-12-String-DIY-Electric-Guitar-Kit/3RRS?_gl=1*c377mp*_ga*NDU5MzcxNjk0LjE2NzY3MjQ2ODU.*_up*

I’m not expecting great quality hardware but as a learning platform what do people think? Will I end up with something playable?

Funkfingers

With that specific kit, the obvious concern is whether the truss rod is up to handling the tension load of twelve strings.

drofluf

Or this one https://guitarkitfabric.co.uk/diy-guitar-kit-rickenbacker-12string-160-en.html

although I would expect that there’s still a possible concern over the truss rod?

Must say I like the idea of a Rickenbacker and this is as close as I’m likely to get

BillDL

No direct experience and it's hard to know what company actually made the kit, because "GuitarWorks" seems to be Gear4Music's own name for the kit and it is their own "Knoxville" branded 12 string but with a basswood rather than ash body.

I always worry when I see a pictorial only assembly manual, especially with these two items shown among the "required tools":

.... however the saw is just to personalise the headstock and the rectangular unknown "tool" is sandpaper.  The assembly manual is actually very well thought out, apart from the bared earth wire to bridge connection that's a bit confusing to look at, and anybody could follow it.

For £99 I would expect that the tuning heads will probably be functional but not great, and the pickup selector switch is the type that usually develops issues after about 6 months.  Similarly the pickups (check the spec on the page - it says "2 x GuitarWorks WHITE single coils) will likely be pretty cheap and very generic sounding ceramic ones that, in due course, might be better replaced with better ones, but you might be surprised.

Given that it has a maple neck with a low angle breakover on the nut and a "Thermally Treated Maple Laminate" fretboard, I would imagine the neck will probably be stiff enough to handle the tension of 12 strings adequately.

Assembly success really comes down to how accurately the pilot holes have been drilled for correct bridge and neck alignment.  I believe I would be quite tempted to take a punt for £99 and improvise to correct any issues if I wanted a 12-string electric.  Gear4Music is fairly good at accepting back faulty items sdo, if there were any alignment or other issues, i don't think you would have to jump through too many hoops to get your money back or a partial refund.

drofluf

As the Rickenbacker has a set neck, which may be a challenge too far for a first build, I think I’ll go for the Gear4Music one. 

Unless I can be convinced that a set next will just drop in

Now Tele or Strat shaped? And what shape do I carve the headstock?

BillDL

As far as actually learning from the build is concerned, you are still going to be checking everything concerning bridge placement, neck alignment, neck angle, etc, but obviously the big difference with the "Rickenbacker" glued-in neck kit there's no going back to shim the neck pocket or plug and redrill screw holes if it doesn't line up as it should.  The learning aspect with the Rickenbacker style would be absolute accuracy of measurement and knowing how to check that the neck angle is going to work with the bridge provided before you commit to gluing it in place.  Additionally, the bound body is an additional  consideration when it comes to finishing it if you are applying a colour.

You did notice that the "Rickenbacker" kit does not have any pre-drilled pilot holes?

That aspect, and the fact that the neck joint will be permanent and you have to accurately measure bridge placement, makes a big difference when it comes to assessing your own skill level and confidence.

With any kit it is always wise to do a "dry fit" and check neck/bridge alignment before disassembling it all to apply a finish.  A glued-in neck can be temporarily clamped for the purposes of a dry fit.  Never place absolute trust in the pilot hole locations in the wood OR on the screw holes in the metal or plastic hardware.  Always dry fit and string it with, at the very least, the two outside E strings.  There have been instances where even very reputable luthiers have supplied kits that had the screw holes in the wrong places on the bridge and would have been off to one side or toofar back or forward if the pilot holes in the body had been used to fit it.  With kits, always be prepared to perform remedial work on it.  If it doesn't need any that's great, but if not at least you were prepared for the possibility.

From an overall satisfaction point of view I would have to say that I would be most tempted by the Rickenbacker style kit, because I think that one would give a much more jangly 12-string sound, would probably feel better in the hand, and has a preshaped headstock, but bearing in mind that it is double the price I would be expecting that to be the case anyway.  The glued-in neck aspect and the fact that it does not come with any pre-drilled pilot holes would make it feel a bit more like an actual build than a parts assembly project (with the possibility of some remedial work) much as you would be doing by buying separate components and hardware.

If you do not have storage space issues and you are not on a tight budget and could afford to buy and complete the Gear4Music kit and then later buy the Rickenbacker one, maybe you could do that and the firs tone would be a good confidence building exercise.  If you do have budget or storage constraints and you are fairly confident that you could line everything up and drill all the holes, then I think the Rickenbacker kit might give you a nicer instrument in the end and a bit more smug satisfaction, but if you cocked it up it would have cost you twice as much as the simpler of the two kits.

One important issue is that I don't see any resources to download an assembly manual on the https://guitarkitfabric.co.uk website.  I was curious to see how comprehensive the instructions would be, but you are at their mercy in this respect and would have to wait until it arrived to see the instructions.  I'm sure that if you photographed your progress and asked here concerning anything you were unsure about, you would get good advice.

drofluf

Thanks @BillDL I’ve just emailed them to ask if they can send instructions. 

I think my biggest concern is getting the neck right; is it as simple a putting a straight edge along the neck and checking it clears the bridge/touches it at the right point? And if it’s not just a matter of sanding the heel?

BillDL

The bodies and necks for modern guitars and kits are cut, bored and milled out on CNC machines, so they should all be very consistent, tight fitting, and correct.  You should not have to sand anything off the wood where the neck heel mates with the rebate in the body.  I have seen a video where somebody discovered a little leftover hump of wood obstructing the neck from going snugly into the pocket, but he was able to use a chisel to remove it.  A CNC machine can wander off spec with temperature changes and you can occasionally get poor cuts where the bit was getting blunt, but not usually significantly enough to be crucial to anything other than high precision metal components.  If you were to encounter anything that prevented the neck from mating and aligning you should be able to send it back for a replacement, but that's where the dry fitting is important before you start drilling holes.

Generally what you need to ensure is that when the neck is fitted snugly, there should be enough movement for the bridge to go down as well as up.  You are correct.  Usually this is measured with a straightedge.  The same is true of the distance of the bridge from the nut on kits where you have to locate the bridge and secure it.  You need available rearward movement for all the adjustable saddles to be moved back from the actual scale length marker to achive good compensation.

The good thing about the Rickenbacker kit is that it DOES have the holes for the fluted/splined sockets that you tap in and then screw in the posts that support the Tun-o-matic style bridge.  These would be the hardest holes to drill as they need to be absolutely vertical and very accurately spaced, which normally needs a pillar drill.  It also appears from the images on their site that the holes for the bridge studs are correctly angled so that the bridge will sit at an angle and allow the saddles to go far enough back on the bass side for good compensation.  I remember seeing one kit where the stud holes were perfectly in line and, unless you had a very wide bridge with tons of saddle movement, you would never be able to intonate the strings.

It looks like the only holes you would have to drill would be pilot holes for the truss rod cover, the trapeze tailpiece, the scratchplate, the output socket mounting plate, and the pickup mounting rings.  If you just take your time, mark the hole positions with a pen or centre punch, and use the correct sized drill bit, you will be able to do this accurately and neatly.  You MIGHT even find that there are tiny dents indicating screw positions, but if so don't automatically trust them and drill without first checking.

Clear assembly instructions and diagrams should show you everything right down to suggested drill bit size for the pilot holes, so it will be interesting to see whether they send you instructions and how comprehensive they are.

The more I look at this kit the more I am wondering whether I might like a Rickenbackerish 12-string electric, but what colour would I finish it?

SteveRobinson

BillDL said:

The more I look at this kit the more I am wondering whether I might like a Rickenbackerish 12-string electric, but what colour would I finish it?

Black of course!

Andyjr1515

A few years ago we had a TFb challenge to build a Gear4Music kit and, if the builder wanted to, do any mods.  The great majority of us were amazed just how good the kits went together for the price.  Hardware and pickups much more variable and most of us upgraded to Wilkinsons or similar.  Necks and associated truss rods, generally, were found to be fine.

Mine became my main gigging guitar for at least 5 years...
...and I scratchbuild guitars and basses as a hobby!

drofluf

Thanks @Andyjr1515 that's reassuring to hear

chor808

I've just built one of the guitar works kits, the neck and body are really good, I got the 'les paul' pro kit with the maple look top. Tuners are terrible, in fact the worst I've ever seen, they cut your fingers in use (really). The pickups are not going to be used but I did try them they were ok. The electrics are small pots but are crackle free and very smooth.

I've done a couple and the hardest thing is just getting the paint work right, this time I've gone with the water based stain, looks ok to me..

Headphones

chor808 said:

I've just built one of the guitar works kits, the neck and body are really good, I got the 'les paul' pro kit with the maple look top. Tuners are terrible, in fact the worst I've ever seen, they cut your fingers in use (really). The pickups are not going to be used but I did try them they were ok. The electrics are small pots but are crackle free and very smooth.

Just like those on the originals then!

drofluf

Well @BillDL you’ve either allayed my fears, lulled me into a false sense of success or are on commission  but either way I’ve bitten the bullet on the Rickenbacker. @chor808 point taken on the hardware but that’s something I can easily replace if needed. 

Flip

I hope this doesn't rain too hard on anyone's parade but when I was starting out I did kits from Coban, Guitar Kit Fabric and Gear4music. The G4M SG (screw-on) was basswood and frankly awful, almost impossible to paint. I don't think they sell that now. The Coban PRS set in was OK but the finish was spoiled because the veneer had been applied carelessly and when the first stain went on all the glue splatter showed. GKFStrat (screw on) was the best prepared (partly because little had been done and I avoided veneers) but the learning was huge and more than worth the hassle.

With those caveats, I'd recommend the Coban or GKF but always be sure you understand the issues eg a Coban ES335 body I looked at has a stop tail in the centre block. The same product from GKF had a slightly slimmer centre block that's too narrow for you to safely install a stop tail even if you bought one - you have to use the supplied lyre (I think that's the right term).

Oh and remember that the ES335 neck is set at an angle so you not only have to measure carefully but guess the angle.- but who said learning to be a luthier was going to be easy! 

drofluf

Ordered on Tuesday, kit arrived today

So now to the first of many questions. 

Is it best to finish body and neck separately or glue them together and do the finishing?

The first option feels easier as I’ll have two relatively small pieces to manage.

I’ve already done a quick fit to check neck alignment and all looks good. 

WezV

Electrics tend to be finished together, plus it pays to do a test assembly before finishing.

It's not uncommon to finish acoustics in two parts though.   If you do go this way you need to be very sure you are not getting finish in the neck join

Flip

Sorry. My experience suggests it's best to glue a set-in neck before finishing. Depending on the wood and the finish you've chosen, pressure applied during the glueing can damage the finish. It also means you glue unfinished wood pieces directly together.

It's understandable to apply extra pressure to be sure the joint is firm rather than hold back on the pressure and risk the thing coming unstuck. I've had to unglue one set-in neck and, believe me, it's no fun.

OTOH I always leave screwed-in necks until the staining/finishing work is done, but it's fair to point out that I never do anything with the neck except a light dressing with Boiled Linseed Oil - that's the finish I like most as a player and I've never had one returned or rejected.

Flip

Can I add for the OP a suggestion to make tools to scrape the binding clean of whatever finish is applied to the body?

I made a simple razor blade grip to do the edge binding that can be set to cut 1mm for the top edge and 4mm or whatever the depth is. I know the professional experts often use just a handheld blade but I'm not that clever.

If the 'f-hole' is also bound, I cut a 1mm indent into a slim file with a comfortable grip and use another file to keep the edge very sharp. Because it's used to clean up the binding around a hole the depth is immaterial and the file is slim enough to negotiate the curves.

drofluf

Thanks, I’ll fit the neck first.

@flip good tip on the binding 

prowla

drofluf said:

Ordered on Tuesday, kit arrived today

So now to the first of many questions. 

Is it best to finish body and neck separately or glue them together and do the finishing?

The first option feels easier as I’ll have two relatively small pieces to manage.

I’ve already done a quick fit to check neck alignment and all looks good. 

It could be fun.

That headstock shape is awful; I'd suggest rounding off the top corner to make it vaguely Ric-like.

One issue with Ric-a-likes is the size of the neck tenon; will it take 12 strings?

It's just occurred to me that a couple of angled screws like on the Billy Sheehan basses might help.

There are folks who do decent looking tailpieces, depending how much you want to spend.