Prison for shouting at cyclist.

vanlooy1

Ip90fool said:

vanlooy1 said:

Perhaps if we had a decent network of cycle paths this sort of shit wouldn’t happen…

They've just built a network of extra wide cycle paths through my nearest town, but families walk four abreast along it, forcing cyclists to mix with cars and lorries on the newly-narrowed road. 

We're in a transition stage, coming towards the end of universal urban car use and everyone is angry at everyone else. We need education as much as we need new infrastructure.

Just listen to the fury from people in safe, single occupancy, gigantic two-tonne vehicles towards tiny, vulnerable cyclists on urban roads - the irony is incredible really, it's completely arse backwards. 

Agree, we need a cultural shift as much as infrastructure.

ThePrettyDamned

There is a genuine culture problem with bikes in this country. I have been yelled at while cycling on a shared path next to the bus way in Cambridgeshire. I was just cycling to work, not going super fast (I'm fat and I can't!), and giving loads of room to the small number of walke but some bloke at the bus stop was deliberately stepping in front of bikes while shouting something about how unsafe it is to cycle next to a bus shelter.

Drivers get very weird about them, as if they feel like they have more entitlement to the road than a bike? Not sure why that would be. 

I have a bell, but seldom use it. I tend to go for "good morning!" or "good afternoon!" with a smile to alert people to my presence. It works, but I've still had people effing me and giving me the finger. 

Edit: I was in Huntingdon yesterday and can almost completely confirm that is a shared pathway, most of the ring road is full of signs to that effect. Google maps would probably clear it up. I don't mind sharing a footpath with cyclists even if it isn't shared to be honest, I'd rather than than another car leaving behind that vile smell of burning fuel. 

Jono111

ThePrettyDamned said:

Drivers get very weird about them, as if they feel like they have more entitlement to the road than a bike? Not sure why that would be. 

Drivers get weird about anyone who doesn't go near the speed limit, doesn't have to be a cyclist 

Dominic

vanlooy1 said:

Ip90fool said:

vanlooy1 said:

Perhaps if we had a decent network of cycle paths this sort of shit wouldn’t happen…

They've just built a network of extra wide cycle paths through my nearest town, but families walk four abreast along it, forcing cyclists to mix with cars and lorries on the newly-narrowed road. 

We're in a transition stage, coming towards the end of universal urban car use and everyone is angry at everyone else. We need education as much as we need new infrastructure.

Just listen to the fury from people in safe, single occupancy, gigantic two-tonne vehicles towards tiny, vulnerable cyclists on urban roads - the irony is incredible really, it's completely arse backwards. 

Agree, we need a cultural shift as much as infrastructure.

Aside from the safety/ vulnerability thing I just don't see how cycling is ever going to be suitable for a lot of people .
I ride a motorbike and there are numerous times it's so bloody difficult to carry anything or get some shopping etc and then all the hassle of the crash helmet to lug around, the clothing etc
cycling is fine if you are commuting to an office /workplace and only have a little laptop or book bag but what about shopping / social and day to day things especially for ladies .
I know some ladies who cycle recreationally and for fitness ,but,
I don't really know any ladies that would be happy to have a helmet on their hair do or be unable to wear elegant clothes or heels for the sake of going on a bike or want to arrive at the office or for lunch or shopping sweaty and dishevelled having ridden a bike .
If I have to wear a suit or be smartly presented and wearing nice shoes I can't even go on a motorbike .
Sure you can get a cab but if you're doing that then you may as well drive yourself (apart from the parking hassle )
Very often in a day I have to get to 6 or 7 different meetings ,often with a big set of documents .......if those places were all close it would be ok but when I have a 9am in Islington ,a 10.30 in Warwick Avenue then out to St Albans ,a quick call in Cricklewood on a huge Industrial Estate and then a meeting at 4 pm in Wood Green before a final one back into Regents Park with 4 boxes of stone samples collected in Wood Green I couldn't do that on a Motorbike ,bicycle,train or bus ...it has to be the car.

ICBM

Brio said:

Emergency services attended and once out of the car McVicar was spoken to by the police, and said to one officer: “I know I shouldn’t have been driving. I had a drink, I have done wrong, I’m sorry.” Following a blood test, she was found to have 168 milligrams of alcohol in 100 millilitres of blood - the legal limit is 80 milligrams, the court heard.
McVicar went on to make a number of unsolicited comments including: “I didn’t think I was over the limit. I hate cyclists, I can’t stand them. Some of them are stupid, aren’t they. I’ll sign anything, I admit I’ve done it, I just want to go home.”

And yet she was still allowed to have a driving licence.When one of you loses a child or spouse to someone driving casually I wonder if such pro-motorist sentiments will top the comments section?

Anyway, if she only had one Bacardi and Coke I do wonder what size measures they serve at her daughter's. Those people let her drive in that condition. They should have been in the box with her.

Sounds like one bottle of Bacardi and one bottle of Coke.

I see no reason why someone convicted of driving when that impaired - and there can't be any doubt about it when you get into a car, it's not like being slightly over the limit after having one more beer than you thought less long ago than you thought - should ever be allowed a licence again. I would be in favour of an automatic permanent disqualification for more than twice over the limit, since you clearly can't be trusted to be responsible.

BillDL

ThePrettyDamned said:

Edit: I was in Huntingdon yesterday and can almost completely confirm that is a shared pathway, most of the ring road is full of signs to that effect.

The incident happened in October 2020.  The police and prosecution were unprepared for the question about signage and intended use of the path in question, and so was the defence KC.  In court, when questioned by the defence agent, Sergeant Dollard was unable to confirm whether or not the path was a shared walkway and cycleway.  Obviously the defence saw this as a possible opportunity to show that a cyclist was on a footpath or the question would not have been raised, but I would have thought that the KC would have already done some homework and ascertained this.  It could simply have been a "clutching at straws" tactic to cast a seed of doubt and also slightly discredit the police and prosecution for not having prepared all available evidence.  Somebody a couple of pages back posted what I think must be a current or recent still from Google Street View showing the small circular blue sign at the scene where the incident occurred, and it clearly shows that the path is for pedestrians and cyclists, but were those signs there at the time of the incident?

In the BBC article: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-64824436

It reports the following details that emerged during the trial:

The trial was told that police could not "categorically" state whether the pavement was a shared cycleway.

Cambridgeshire County Council subsequently reiterated that and said it would review the location, but in his sentencing remarks Judge Sean Enright said it was a shared cycleway.

It is unclear what was meant by "review the location" nor whether a council representative was called as a witness, and the atricle does not specify whether the judge managed to verify the shared use prior to sentencing.

The custodial sentence was almost certainly the result of the defendant:

(a) maintaining a not guilty plea to the end

(b) showing a total lack of remorse at the scene (walking off unconcerned about the cyclist' welfare) and in later police interviews

(c) telling a few porkies such as "the pedal cycle as travelling fast in the centre of the pavement .... she was anxious that she was going to get hit by it ....... I may have unintentionally put out my hand to protect myself", when it was quite apparent from the CCTV that the bike wasn't going fast, that she centred herself and then moved to block the cyclist, and that the arm and body movements were not unintentional.

My brother competes in triathlons and cycles 20 miles to work in Cambridge and 20 miles home again.  he has had some hair-raising experiences with entitled car drivers cutting him up, and a few near misses.  He does, however, have a very low regard for a lot of the cyclists in the city that fly around the place with their black capes fluttering behind, ignoring red lights, going the wrong way along streets or on the wrong side of the road, and bumping up onto pedestrian footpaths to bypass obstructions.  He has had two different cyclist collide with him while walking in Cambridge.  Not all cyclists are responsible and, as the case here has demonstrated, not all pedestrians are nice.

Offset

From a slightly different perspective...

If you come off the A419 at the Spine Road junction and branch left, you will join aforementioned Spine Road.  It's single carriageway but after around 3/4 mile it broadens out into a wide fast road.  There have been numerous bad accidents along this stretch (one involving a good friend) and because it's dangerous, a wide pavement/cycleway has been constructed on one side so that cyclists can proceed safely; pedestrians are also be accommodated and there are painted lines segregating the two.

In the nigh-on 20 years I've lived here, the only cyclists I've seen using that track have been parents with small kids.  Cycling is very popular here (it's as flat as a witch's tit) but adult cyclists insist on using the main carriageway.  I've had a few near misses over the years and I've seen plenty too - it really annoys me that after spending what must have been a considerable amount of money on this facility, cyclists don't bloody well use it.  And then complain that car drivers make the roads unsafe for them.

fretmeister

chillidoggy said:

I guessing the judge was a cyclist.

What about the 12 jury members? Were they all cyclists too?

fretmeister

Jono111 said:

I wonder what the difference in price between the defense lawyers was between the two cases

Both legal aid, so both the same.

crunchman

Offset said:

From a slightly different perspective...

If you come off the A419 at the Spine Road junction and branch left, you will join aforementioned Spine Road.  It's single carriageway but after around 3/4 mile it broadens out into a wide fast road.  There have been numerous bad accidents along this stretch (one involving a good friend) and because it's dangerous, a wide pavement/cycleway has been constructed on one side so that cyclists can proceed safely; pedestrians are also be accommodated and there are painted lines segregating the two.

In the nigh-on 20 years I've lived here, the only cyclists I've seen using that track have been parents with small kids.  Cycling is very popular here (it's as flat as a witch's tit) but adult cyclists insist on using the main carriageway.  I've had a few near misses over the years and I've seen plenty too - it really annoys me that after spending what must have been a considerable amount of money on this facility, cyclists don't bloody well use it.  And then complain that car drivers make the roads unsafe for them.

If it's anything like some of the "cycle facilities" around here, then there will be good reason why they don't use it.

There is one "cycle lane" on a pavement, where you have to give way at every single side road.  There is one stretch where there are 23 side roads - I counted them.  If you stay on the main carriageway, there is one roundabout where you have to give way to traffic on the roundabout.

The "cycle lane" normally has pedestrians walking in it.  It doesn't get de-iced in winter.  It will be full of slippery leaf mulch in the autumn.

There is another one near here (a shared use pavement) where there are tree branches hanging down at head height.  Good luck if you get a that in your eye at 15mph.

ewal

Dominic said:

vanlooy1 said:

Ip90fool said:

vanlooy1 said:

Perhaps if we had a decent network of cycle paths this sort of shit wouldn’t happen…

They've just built a network of extra wide cycle paths through my nearest town, but families walk four abreast along it, forcing cyclists to mix with cars and lorries on the newly-narrowed road. 

We're in a transition stage, coming towards the end of universal urban car use and everyone is angry at everyone else. We need education as much as we need new infrastructure.

Just listen to the fury from people in safe, single occupancy, gigantic two-tonne vehicles towards tiny, vulnerable cyclists on urban roads - the irony is incredible really, it's completely arse backwards. 

Agree, we need a cultural shift as much as infrastructure.

Aside from the safety/ vulnerability thing I just don't see how cycling is ever going to be suitable for a lot of people .
I ride a motorbike and there are numerous times it's so bloody difficult to carry anything or get some shopping etc and then all the hassle of the crash helmet to lug around, the clothing etc
cycling is fine if you are commuting to an office /workplace and only have a little laptop or book bag but what about shopping / social and day to day things especially for ladies .
I know some ladies who cycle recreationally and for fitness ,but,
I don't really know any ladies that would be happy to have a helmet on their hair do or be unable to wear elegant clothes or heels for the sake of going on a bike or want to arrive at the office or for lunch or shopping sweaty and dishevelled having ridden a bike .
If I have to wear a suit or be smartly presented and wearing nice shoes I can't even go on a motorbike .
Sure you can get a cab but if you're doing that then you may as well drive yourself (apart from the parking hassle )
Very often in a day I have to get to 6 or 7 different meetings ,often with a big set of documents .......if those places were all close it would be ok but when I have a 9am in Islington ,a 10.30 in Warwick Avenue then out to St Albans ,a quick call in Cricklewood on a huge Industrial Estate and then a meeting at 4 pm in Wood Green before a final one back into Regents Park with 4 boxes of stone samples collected in Wood Green I couldn't do that on a Motorbike ,bicycle,train or bus ...it has to be the car.

That opinion of cycling illustrates the cultural shift we need to make. In other countries people ride their bikes in normal clothes, including high heels if that's their thing. And they have alot more bikes capable of carrying loads.

And the ladies and their hair do's - a bit old-fashioned... 

DefaultM

I can only think of 2 incidents I’ve had with cyclists in the last 10 years. It’s probably the same for everyone but some people just hang on to it and hate them all as a result.

Dominic

ewal said:

Dominic said:

vanlooy1 said:

Ip90fool said:

vanlooy1 said:

Perhaps if we had a decent network of cycle paths this sort of shit wouldn’t happen…

They've just built a network of extra wide cycle paths through my nearest town, but families walk four abreast along it, forcing cyclists to mix with cars and lorries on the newly-narrowed road. 

We're in a transition stage, coming towards the end of universal urban car use and everyone is angry at everyone else. We need education as much as we need new infrastructure.

Just listen to the fury from people in safe, single occupancy, gigantic two-tonne vehicles towards tiny, vulnerable cyclists on urban roads - the irony is incredible really, it's completely arse backwards. 

Agree, we need a cultural shift as much as infrastructure.

Aside from the safety/ vulnerability thing I just don't see how cycling is ever going to be suitable for a lot of people .
I ride a motorbike and there are numerous times it's so bloody difficult to carry anything or get some shopping etc and then all the hassle of the crash helmet to lug around, the clothing etc
cycling is fine if you are commuting to an office /workplace and only have a little laptop or book bag but what about shopping / social and day to day things especially for ladies .
I know some ladies who cycle recreationally and for fitness ,but,
I don't really know any ladies that would be happy to have a helmet on their hair do or be unable to wear elegant clothes or heels for the sake of going on a bike or want to arrive at the office or for lunch or shopping sweaty and dishevelled having ridden a bike .
If I have to wear a suit or be smartly presented and wearing nice shoes I can't even go on a motorbike .
Sure you can get a cab but if you're doing that then you may as well drive yourself (apart from the parking hassle )
Very often in a day I have to get to 6 or 7 different meetings ,often with a big set of documents .......if those places were all close it would be ok but when I have a 9am in Islington ,a 10.30 in Warwick Avenue then out to St Albans ,a quick call in Cricklewood on a huge Industrial Estate and then a meeting at 4 pm in Wood Green before a final one back into Regents Park with 4 boxes of stone samples collected in Wood Green I couldn't do that on a Motorbike ,bicycle,train or bus ...it has to be the car.

That opinion of cycling illustrates the cultural shift we need to make. In other countries people ride their bikes in normal clothes, including high heels if that's their thing. And they have alot more bikes capable of carrying loads.

And the ladies and their hair do's - a bit old-fashioned... 

Not a hair-do as such ....that's just my name for it but I can't see the ladies in their designer fashion and bags etc in the area I work (St Johns Wood ) getting on bikes when they go out .
I know my wife gets her hair blow dried twice a week and wont even walk to the car or cancels her appointment if it's windy or drizzling let alone wear a helmet.

crunchman

You don't have to wear a helmet on a bike.

vanlooy1

DefaultM said:

I can only think of 2 incidents I’ve had with cyclists in the last 10 years. It’s probably the same for everyone but some people just hang on to it and hate them all as a result.

Some people lap up the culture war bullshit!

Dominic

The Original issue ;
I have read some background about the woman involved .
I'm not commenting on the 'who had the right of way /  the bike or pedestrian entitlement to use the footway issue ' as it's irrelevant to my point.
This is not right .........it's a perfect example of 'sausage factory' justice .The outcome is awful and sad but the woman involved is very clearly handicapped with a defined and undisputed number of mental health issues .She lives in sheltered disabled housing , neighbours have remarked that she has been known there for 17 years for shouting at herself within her flat ,having behavioural issues , Autism ,Cerebral Palsy ,Personality disorders .
You've only got to look at her to see that she is clearly vulnerable and disabled ,mentally challenged.
How does it benefit to send her to a Prison where she will serve about 14 months to no greater good whatsoever ......in fact , it will be tortuous and inhuman.Apparently she will meantime lose her sheltered home etc .
There can be no winners here nor should there be spiteful vengeance .
She may well be a nuisance and not likeable but this smacks of medievalism .......maybe we should have put the village idiot in the Stocks on the village green and encouraged the mob to kick and beat her ,throw stones and putrid food and faeces whilst she semi starves and shivers through the cold nights for 6 weeks.
Disgraceful Justice .

BillDL

Where the charges are of a serious nature that MIGHT result in a custodial sentence the social work department are usually given the task of doing a FULL background enquiry (a "social enquiry report") for the court if there is even the SLIGHTEST suspicion or suggestion that the defendant is not the full shilling or vulnerable or has dependants.  Either they didn't do a very good job of preparing the report for the judge to realise all the facts fully (probable) or the judge did not give serious enough consideration the the report.

Brio

Either they didn't do a very good job of preparing the report for the judge to realise all the facts fully (probable) or the judge did not give serious enough consideration the the report.

Or maybe they did and the decision was there were no reasons to justify her behavior.
I don't know I wasn't in court. Obviously you lot were.

Sassafras

If even the police aren't sure it's a shared path, what makes that nasty old bitch so sure it belongs to her?
Not that the path's intended purpose makes any difference.
I wonder if she'd have been so bold if the cyclist had been a strapping 20 year old skinhead instead of a frail 77 year old woman.

Offset

crunchman said:

Offset said:

From a slightly different perspective...

If you come off the A419 at the Spine Road junction and branch left, you will join aforementioned Spine Road.  It's single carriageway but after around 3/4 mile it broadens out into a wide fast road.  There have been numerous bad accidents along this stretch (one involving a good friend) and because it's dangerous, a wide pavement/cycleway has been constructed on one side so that cyclists can proceed safely; pedestrians are also be accommodated and there are painted lines segregating the two.

In the nigh-on 20 years I've lived here, the only cyclists I've seen using that track have been parents with small kids.  Cycling is very popular here (it's as flat as a witch's tit) but adult cyclists insist on using the main carriageway.  I've had a few near misses over the years and I've seen plenty too - it really annoys me that after spending what must have been a considerable amount of money on this facility, cyclists don't bloody well use it.  And then complain that car drivers make the roads unsafe for them.

If it's anything like some of the "cycle facilities" around here, then there will be good reason why they don't use it.

There is one "cycle lane" on a pavement, where you have to give way at every single side road.  There is one stretch where there are 23 side roads - I counted them.  If you stay on the main carriageway, there is one roundabout where you have to give way to traffic on the roundabout.

The "cycle lane" normally has pedestrians walking in it.  It doesn't get de-iced in winter.  It will be full of slippery leaf mulch in the autumn.

There is another one near here (a shared use pavement) where there are tree branches hanging down at head height.  Good luck if you get a that in your eye at 15mph.

When I have time, I'll take a picture.  You'll see what I mean.  It's none of the above!