column PA for band?

relic245

Some of our band are very keen to get a column type PA system for small gigs. 

From some reading I get the impression they may not be the best choice for bands and are more suitable for solo or duos or dj's

Any thoughts? 

If they are suitable then the one that they've been looking at is EVOX J8 but about £800 per speaker is quite pricey. 

I've spotted things like the Fame audio everest 10 at about £450 a speaker so quite a lot less expensive.  Are the cheeper systems good enough, or do you really need to be paying a decent wack? 

I know these things need an external mixer if being used with a band, we've got one so we're ok there. 

Musicwolf

What are you planning to put through the PA (vocals only or other stuff as well)?  What size of venue?

The EVOX are spec'd at 120dB max, no spec for the Fame's (which immediately sets alarm bells ringing with me).  I had a pair of LD System Maui 11's which were a similar design but they maxed out at around 113dB which was just about ok for vocals only in a very small pub.

relic245 said:

  Are the cheeper systems good enough No, or do you really need to be paying a decent wack? Yes

maltingsaudio

Why is it that  what you won’t to pay on a PA,is nowhere near what you’d pay out on a guitar or an amp?

That aside, I wouldn’t  go for column speakers for a full band mix. A pair of 12’s for coals and sub for kick sounds much better imho 

Roland

It’s a few years ago, but when this type of PA was new on the market we got together with a distributor, and did a side by side test in a school hall. Evox, Maui, and our own SRM450s and sub. The guitar didn’t come through the mix. 

davros

We have an pair of evox 8s in our band, but normally just put vocals and keys through it. Perfectly loud enough for that.

relic245

Ideally the whole band, 3 vocals, kick drum (and maybe a couple more depending on venue] guitar and bass.

playing medium pub gigs (medium sized room and maybe 100 people)and occasionally beer gardens.

bigger venues tend to have their own pa.

We currently use a soundcraft powered mixer and an old but very good set of Yamaha speakers.

it sounds great and does the job but just heavy and bulky. 

Snags

Talk to @Legionreturns if he's around/available, he's been through a bunch of PA options over the last few years as part of his business. I think the answer will end up being "it can work just fine, but you can't cheap out on it".

Danny1969

A friends band has the RCF Evox 12 X 2 .... everything's in them and the kick is pretty punchy. That's what you can get, punchy rather than huge warm low end. I think the pair was about 3K though. 

Personally though I wouldn't bother. Look at something like a used pair QSC K12 tops and subs. They are much more capable and still pretty compact. 

chickenbonejohn

I've been wondering about going to a pair of  Evox J8, as my Mackie 450s are getting bit heavy to me to set on the speaker stands....BUT at 24kg (52lb)  the units are heavier than my Mackies, and even tho' you don't have to get them onto the poles, they are still heavy for an old geezer like me to drag in and out of the van. One attraction tho' was the Evox JMix8 which has a built in mixer, so for duo work I think this would be a good option simply because it is way more convenient than taking a full conventional rig of speakers, stands and a desk. I played a  gig a few weeks ago with 4 sets of a similar EV (or might have been HK) rigs, but struggled to get a good kick drum sound out of them. The Evox 12 looks a better bet, but with a 15" sub it is a LOT weightier and expensive. I used to play and do the sound regularly at a venue which had a basic Bose line array PA and it was not very good for full electric bands. If you think one Evox 8 at £800 is expensive, you need to have a proper look round at current prices get your head straight with current prices - as someone else said, you can't cheap out on PA gear..and expect it to perform really well. 

Sporky

I love columns for voice reinforcement. Lovely controlled dispersion, long throw, and the drivers tend to be a good size for speech reproduction.

Not the right solution for a band, or serious volume though. 

p90fool

We have a pair of JBL Eon Ones, which we used to use for small venues for vocals and a bit of kick drum but really they were barely loud enough. We now use them for kick and a little bit of guitar spread, the vocals having their own PA. 

The JBLs sound beautiful for electro acoustic gigs with two guitars and two voices, but you'd never get a band mix over even the ambient chatter of a 100 person pub gig - the kick drum alone sets off the limiter and the vocals disappear. 

relic245

Thanks for all the comments this is really interesting. 

It all started last week when we were offered a pair of Evox J8's. We nearly bought them on a whim as they would solve some transport issues for us. 

They sold before we could buy them and it sounds like we may have saved ourself some money as I don't think they would have been right for us. 

Legionreturns

Snags said:

Talk to @Legionreturns if he's around/available, he's been through a bunch of PA options over the last few years as part of his business. I think the answer will end up being "it can work just fine, but you can't cheap out on it".

Sorry, I missed this. 

For full band, I use 2 EV Evolve 50s, and supplement them with either 1 or 2 EV EKX-15 Subs, depending on the venue. 

This setup covers most bases. The only time I deviate from that is when I need longer throw. 

Column arrays tend to spread sound really well, but do not hit the back of big venues. I will add some traditional tops, either RCFs or EVs, as satellite speakers, to increase the straight line power. 

A quick look at the above, and some maths, and you'll see that @Snags was correct. You can do it, but skimping on price will mean a poor result. 

2 x EV Evolve 50: 1kw per side, with 12" sub. Circa £1800 each 
1 or 2 EV EKX-15SP 15" subs, 1600w each, £950 each
RCF Art 710 / 712 tops, 1500w each, £500 each 

I choose the EV arrays, as they blew everything else in their class away, hands down. Even so, if I want chest thumping kick and bass, I need the dedicated extra sub. 

I get booked for a lot of indoor and outdoor festivals with multiple bands, and they sound great in any environment. 

shufflebeat

Legionreturns said: 

I choose the EV arrays, as they blew everything else in their class away, hands down. Even so, if I want chest thumping kick and bass, I need the dedicated extra sub. 

This is also my experience.

I sometimes tech for an act with an EV Evolve 50 either side and it’s very well balanced as regards power, coverage and weight.

Personally, I’ve ended with an EV elx200-sp sub and Yam dxr8 either side for small/medium pub band gigs. We borrowed some RCF j8s for a couple of rehearsals but when they get to the limit of their useful output they sound very feeble. A massive sound in a small area but the upper limit is very obvious. Great for an over 60’s DJ with a small car.

The Yam/EV system has always been enough without going into the red.

However, it sounds like the OP is simultaneously going for more power and less weight and that would cost considerably more than my little system.

hassleham

I have a pair of Mark Audio Ergo 4's and do a jam night twice a month with kick mic'd up and bass DI, as well as guitar amp mic'd and obviously vocals. They do a great job, and the size means I can get all the gear in my estate without multiple trips. 
The subs are 2x8" per side, and I can't believe how good they are for such small cones!

I've played a wedding with my function band with around 100 guests in a 8 x 10m room and they were absolutely fine also, and I'm doing another one soon for a similar number of guests with the same system.

I have a larger system (SRM450s + 2 x active 18" subs) which is the system we use most often in the function band, however I would say we could get away with the Ergo 4s for 80% of weddings we do in terms of size of room/number of guests.

As others said, throw can be an issue in larger rooms but easy to reinforce with a couple of extra speakers.

I've compared a lot of other mini line arrays, FBT, EV and Bose F1 all very good. Definitely worth spending more to get a better system rather than cheaping out and being disappointed later.

If you want to check out the Ergo 4s in action the Jam Night is in Holmfirth twice a month.

hassleham

Vid here if you’re interested 
https://youtu.be/0LWWGQ4RaEc

JonP

My daughter’s band are based in Bristol. Last November they had a gig at a busy pub but required a PA for the evening. I used two Bose L1 Pro 16 unites plugged into an Allen & Heath QU16. I controlled the sound from my iPad in the audience. I put everything into the
PA - two electric guitars, acoustic guitar, bass, keyboard, vocals, violin and drums. Everything was miked. 

I had told my daughter that I was unsure as to how this system would work for a loud electric band in a noisy pub but it was their only option. 

We were going to add monitors but at sound check the whole band said they could hear everything without - 180 degree overage from the Bose.  

The sound was great - easily got above 80 or so noisy drinkers. I was asked many times ‘where is the sound coming from?’ And people were amazed when I told them it came from those ‘sticks’ on stage.  The kick drum was deep and full. 

In short - yes!!! I think you can use stick systems with a rock band!

GramP

hassleham said:

Vid here if you’re interested 
https://youtu.be/0LWWGQ4RaEc

 For me an  others opinions might vary....  If I was a band that did  anything  apporoaching rock, country, driving blues etc.. I would hear that and go./.. nah not good eough for a full band, certainly not in a noisy venue.. I can see it worknig for a fundtion band that does  lots of classic and pop covers and does not get too heavy- that is not a swipe at  functions bands,  who tend to be awsome musicians

Legionreturns

GramP said:

hassleham said:

Vid here if you’re interested 
https://youtu.be/0LWWGQ4RaEc

 For me an  others opinions might vary....  If I was a band that did  anything  apporoaching rock, country, driving blues etc.. I would hear that and go./.. nah not good eough for a full band, certainly not in a noisy venue.. I can see it worknig for a fundtion band that does  lots of classic and pop covers and does not get too heavy- that is not a swipe at  functions bands,  who tend to be awsome musicians

Try these; 

This is my Evolve 50 system, with 1 added 15" EV sub (I sometimes use 2) at an outdoor jubilee festival last year. Shit recordings, on someone's phone, and taken from inside the busy beer tent with lots of chatting going on. Even so, you can (if you listen on headphones) hear everything, and plenty of trouser flap and chest thump. 

Two different styles for you. Yes, column arrays can definitely do rock. (The second band actually went out and bought my exact setup afterwards, and ditched the van load of massive bass bins and tops they'd been using for years!)


https://fb.watch/jCXaAS3RJP/

https://fb.watch/jCXsjfMuE-/