Help needed! M1 iMac and External SSD questions!

robwright

So I bought an M1 iMac - great machine, very happy with it! 

However it only has a small SSD drive (512GB) which is filling very quickly! I bought a 2GB Samsung External SSD to put as much stuff on as I could but most software seems to need to go on the same drive as the iOS! I’ve palmed off some bigger libraries on the external drive, but I do have a slight plug-in addiction! 

So I thought to meself, ‘can I put the iOS on the external SSD and boot from that, thus quadrupling my storage space in one go??? Some people on ‘tinterweb say ‘Nay, nay and thrice nay! Don’t fuck with yer iOS and take it off the internal drive’! But in further research, those learned chaps at MacWorld have this to say

https://www.macworld.com/article/331916/how-to-start-up-your-m1-mac-from-an-external-drive.html

so my questions are

1. is it a stupid idea? 

2. if so, what is a better idea?

3. should I do it?

4. if so, is it reversible or will I fuck up me M1? (In other words, if it all goes Mr P Tong, can I go back to having the iOS on the internal drive - without the need for a degree in IT or better still having Steve Jobs brain?) 

Thanks all! 

Stratavarious

iOS is for ipads? 

Do you mean the MacOS?  Leave that where it is and install other apps/plugins on SSD. I have VSTs, IRs and a bunch of other stuff on SSD and the heavy video libraries for Final Cut are directed to there too.

The SSD IS your storage space.

Habanero

I don't think it would be a good idea to even attempt to run your Mac with macOS on an external drive. Whilst technically it might work, it would be sloooooow.

robwright

Stratavarious said:

iOS is for ipads? 

Do you mean the MacOS?  Leave that where it is and install other apps/plugins on SSD. I have VSTs, IRs and a bunch of other stuff on SSD and the heavy video libraries for Final Cut are directed to there too.

The SSD IS your storage space.

It won't let me put most of the plugins on an SSD - says that they have to be on the same drive as MacOS. Same with a lot of VST's like EZDrummer - although I can store the libraries on the SSD. Is there any way of overriding this? 

robwright

Habanero said:

I don't think it would be a good idea to even attempt to run your Mac with macOS on an external drive. Whilst technically it might work, it would be sloooooow.

Would it be slow with an SSD?

Habanero

robwright said:

Habanero said:

I don't think it would be a good idea to even attempt to run your Mac with macOS on an external drive. Whilst technically it might work, it would be sloooooow.

Would it be slow with an SSD?

Based on a quick search, the latest external Samsung T7 SSDs are claiming theoretical read speeds of 1Gb/s. This would likely be lower in the real world. This compares with some online tests showing the actual internal SSD measured at 2.9Gb/s.

octatonic

This is the danger of buying a Mac with the minimum size drive.
IMHO there is no point getting a Mac with less than 2TB now, otherwise you will find yourself in this unenviable situation.
I bought a base model Studio last year and sold it within 3 months and got the Ultra with 4TB internal.

The thing to do is get Blackmagic Disk Speed Test and compare the read and write speeds between your Macs internal NVME and the external.
That will tell you if it is worth doing.
Don't buy on spec and expect it to work- there are too many variables.

Some things to know:

Macs are limited to PCIE3 so the read/write speeds you see in the specs are simply not possible with PCIE4 capable SSDs.
Don't waste your money unless you need to (as I do) to move devices between PCIE 3 Macs and PCIE4 PCs.

Many of the external drives will not achieve read/write speeds as good or better than the internal drive because of some choices made either by Apple or by the drive housing manufacturers.

For instance, the Mac Studio Ultra, which is my main machine uses two drives in RAID 0.
I don't know if your Mac Mini does or not.

I have three storage expansions on my Studio.
One Highpoint hardware RAID PCIE card with 4x 2TB NVMEs in RAID 10.
One OWC Accelsior PCIE card with 4x 2TB NVMEs as JBOD.
One OWC Express 4M2 with 4x2TB NVMEs as JBOD (thunderbolt).

The thunderbolt expansion is about half the speed of the OWC Accelsior, which is in turn half the speed of the hardware RAID.
I use the Express 4M2 for archiving.

You can move all your plugins to an external by putting an alias to the external drive plugin folder in the expected plugin folders.
I don't know if you are using VST, Audio Unit or AAX.

If AU then that would be Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components
If using AAX then Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins
You should be able to custom configure any VST plugin folders in your audio apps.

spark240

@octatonic Im interested in this....Im using a base model M1 mini and plugins would be better on a remote SSD though some seem to want be only installed on the internal drive , and Im not tech enough to work out why this is...can you possibly explain a little more ...I generally use VST

You can move all your plugins to an external by putting an alias to the external drive plugin folder in the expected plugin folders.
I don't know if you are using VST, Audio Unit or AAX.

octatonic

spark240 said:

@octatonic Im interested in this....Im using a base model M1 mini and plugins would be better on a remote SSD though some seem to want be only installed on the internal drive , and Im not tech enough to work out why this is...can you possibly explain a little more ...I generally use VST

You can move all your plugins to an external by putting an alias to the external drive plugin folder in the expected plugin folders.
I don't know if you are using VST, Audio Unit or AAX.

This is the process for an alias.

You move your VST plugins (they may be installed in multiple places- google where the installers place them by default) to your external drive.
Make sure you delete them from the source location when copied.
I would also back them up separately just to be sure.

Make sure you maintain separate VST2 and VST3 folders.
So folder structure(s) would be:

Drive Name/VST Plugins/VST
Drive Name/VST Plugins/VST3

Then place an alias to each of these folders in the appropriate place.

So an alias for Drive Name/VST Plugins/VST is placed in Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/VST
and one for Drive Name/VST Plugins/VST3 in Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components/VST3

But a lot of this is unnecessary with certain workstations and applications, especially with VST.

For instance in Studio One you can configure custom VST folders.



Just put the VST plugins on an external drive and add the folder here.
Do it for any other app that uses them.

This doesn't work for AAX or Audio Unit- those folders cannot be redirected except by using aliases.

Habanero

@octatonic

Would you also need the alias anyway so that any new plugin subsequently installed will be written to the external SSD by default?

octatonic

Habanero said:

@octatonic

Would you also need the alias anyway so that any new plugin subsequently installed will be written to the external SSD by default?

No, you have the purpose of the alias turned around.
You put the alias in the 'default' plugin folder to point to the moved folder.
One alias for the entire plugin library.
It points the DAW (Say Logic) to the correct folder when it goes looking for plugins in Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components when they are actually on the external in whatever folder you decide to put them in.

The reason this is such a ball ache is because every time you install a new plugin you will have to move it to the external drive manually. That is, unless the plugin installed gives you the option to place it where you want.

It sucks and the way around it is to buy a Mac with enough storage to never need to do it.

We used to do this a lot waaaay back when old platter based hard drives were the norm.
Until I got the previous Studio I didn't do it for about a decade.
But Apple insist on offering machines that are entirely unsuitable for the work they are going to end up doing as a way of having a lower priced product, and then gouging you for the upgraded storage.

IMHO it is terrible for the consumer and bad for Apple as a company.
The absolute minimum they should be selling is 1TB in 2023.
This is absolutely essential in a portable.

If you have a 256GB SSD in a Macbook it is possible to do the same thing, have plugins on an external drive.
But as soon as it is unplugged and taken somewhere (as laptops are often used) you've lost all your plugins until you plug it back in.

I don't like paying £600-£1200 for an SSD upgrade.
I actually detest doing so.
But I like pissing about with alias folders a hell of a lot less.

This is why I have, in multiple threads here over the years, urged people to by machines with as much internal storage as they can.
If you want a mental shortcut for this, basically double whatever you think you need now.
Or you do what I have suggested above and have to manage it on an ongoing basis.

Or, get/build a PC.

Snags

@octatonic can you not use symbolic links instead of aliases, so that you don't have to bugger about each time?

octatonic

Snags said:

@octatonic can you not use symbolic links instead of aliases, so that you don't have to bugger about each time?

You could but that won't fix the problem, because a single alias works for the entire plugin folder.
It could be a symbolic link, or an alias.
It doesn't matter- because that is the thing you only have to do once.

The buggering about happens when you have it all sorted, then install a new plugin which needs to be moved.
Then a week later maybe another plugin- you have to move that too.

What would be more useful is if all installers allowed you to direct where it was installing to.
Then you wouldn't have to move anything.
It used to be very common to be able to do so, but over time programmers have removed that choice because end users often fuck it up.

For me?
I don't have to do any of this.
All the plugins are installed to the Macintosh HD on my 3 systems.

I am an advocate, even for power users, to use the defaults as much as possible.
It is just less to manage.

octatonic

octatonic said:

This is the danger of buying a Mac with the minimum size drive.
IMHO there is no point getting a Mac with less than 2TB now, otherwise you will find yourself in this unenviable situation.
I bought a base model Studio last year and sold it within 3 months and got the Ultra with 4TB internal.

The thing to do is get Blackmagic Disk Speed Test and compare the read and write speeds between your Macs internal NVME and the external.
That will tell you if it is worth doing.
Don't buy on spec and expect it to work- there are too many variables.

Some things to know:

Macs are limited to PCIE3 so the read/write speeds you see in the specs are simply not possible with PCIE4 capable SSDs.
Don't waste your money unless you need to (as I do) to move devices between PCIE 3 Macs and PCIE4 PCs.

Many of the external drives will not achieve read/write speeds as good or better than the internal drive because of some choices made either by Apple or by the drive housing manufacturers.

For instance, the Mac Studio Ultra, which is my main machine uses two drives in RAID 0.
I don't know if your Mac Mini does or not.

I have three storage expansions on my Studio.
One Highpoint hardware RAID PCIE card with 4x 2TB NVMEs in RAID 10.
One OWC Accelsior PCIE card with 4x 2TB NVMEs as JBOD.
One OWC Express 4M2 with 4x2TB NVMEs as JBOD (thunderbolt).

The thunderbolt expansion is about half the speed of the OWC Accelsior, which is in turn half the speed of the hardware RAID.
I use the Express 4M2 for archiving.

You can move all your plugins to an external by putting an alias to the external drive plugin folder in the expected plugin folders.
I don't know if you are using VST, Audio Unit or AAX.

If AU then that would be Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components
If using AAX then Macintosh HD/Library/Application Support/Avid/Audio/Plug-Ins
You should be able to custom configure any VST plugin folders in your audio apps.

I need to correct myself here.
I was working from memory on some of it.
I went back and tested it this afternoon and was surprised by some of the findings.

Thunderbolt bandwidth is limited to a maximum of ~2750MB/s.
So if your internal drive can do more than that then you will be getting a performance downgrade to use an external.
My internal SSD is over 5000 MB/s.

The hardware RAID card I am using tops out around 2750MB/s on the Mac Studio.
It was getting about 7000MB/s under my Mac Pro, because the PCIE slots it was using were x16 mechanical and electrical.
You can't get that over Thunderbolt.
Sonnet, for example, have some slots that are x16 mechanical and x8 electrical.

Putting things on Thunderbolt is fine but you will get significantly better performance using the internal drive.

Habanero

octatonic said:

Habanero said:

@octatonic

Would you also need the alias anyway so that any new plugin subsequently installed will be written to the external SSD by default?

No, you have the purpose of the alias turned around.
You put the alias in the 'default' plugin folder to point to the moved folder.
One alias for the entire plugin library.
It points the DAW (Say Logic) to the correct folder when it goes looking for plugins in Macintosh HD/Library/Audio/Plug-Ins/Components when they are actually on the external in whatever folder you decide to put them in.

The reason this is such a ball ache is because every time you install a new plugin you will have to move it to the external drive manually. That is, unless the plugin installed gives you the option to place it where you want.

It sucks and the way around it is to buy a Mac with enough storage to never need to do it.

We used to do this a lot waaaay back when old platter based hard drives were the norm.
Until I got the previous Studio I didn't do it for about a decade.
But Apple insist on offering machines that are entirely unsuitable for the work they are going to end up doing as a way of having a lower priced product, and then gouging you for the upgraded storage.

IMHO it is terrible for the consumer and bad for Apple as a company.
The absolute minimum they should be selling is 1TB in 2023.
This is absolutely essential in a portable.

If you have a 256GB SSD in a Macbook it is possible to do the same thing, have plugins on an external drive.
But as soon as it is unplugged and taken somewhere (as laptops are often used) you've lost all your plugins until you plug it back in.

I don't like paying £600-£1200 for an SSD upgrade.
I actually detest doing so.
But I like pissing about with alias folders a hell of a lot less.

This is why I have, in multiple threads here over the years, urged people to by machines with as much internal storage as they can.
If you want a mental shortcut for this, basically double whatever you think you need now.
Or you do what I have suggested above and have to manage it on an ongoing basis.

Or, get/build a PC.

Cheers, yes I presumed that the alias/symlink once in place would redirect writes and not just reads. As you say, always having to manually move new installs would be a right ball ache.

robwright

Thanks all - I’m definitely leaving my little iMac ‘as is’