New band, first gig, surprising (to me) choice for how we got our sound right

TheBigDipper

My new band had its first gig yesterday. Things didn't work out quite like I'd expected - but in a good way. 

We've only been together for 10 weeks - all strangers beforehand -and we're doing original music as a writing collective. But, about 4 weeks ago we were asked if we'd play at the 6th birthday party for our local craft beer brewer. The drummer knows the owner. So, we said "yes" and then wondered what we were going to do. Not too much pressure, a 45 minute slot of originals with some acts before us, and a couple after us, leading to the main danceable covers band. 

So we decided to be our own covers band and put together a set of legacy material we'd all written before meeting up.

The gig was in a barn (the brewery is on a farm that doesn't use all it's outbuildings). Concrete/stone floor, wooden walls and roof, half the right hand side open to the world. The bands were in a 3-sided box at one end. As our drummer was helping with the PA, we went in the day before to set ourselves up. Because we play direct into a PA at practice sessions, we'd not played with a live kit and amps since the day we first met. 

We had live drums (some mics), bass amp, guitar amp and vocals & keys direct into the PA. Wedge monitors at the front, for the keys and for the drummer (who also sings). We couldn't get a usable sound. Muddy, echoey, no-one could hear themselves.

But we found a solution and it wasn't the one I expected.

Onstage sound was live drums and a bit of bass from the bass amp, with keys, guitar (GT1000 going direct) and vox through the wedge monitors. Just the one monitor mix. 

Front of house was live drums (plus a bit of kick in the PA), everything else going direct. 

It worked really well. I could hear everyone and we sounded good out front. I could be a convert to going direct, you know...  :-)

But still not yet a convert to modellers - despite the GT1000 being the best one I've used, I still don't like the tones I get and hate the unnatural (to me) way you assemble a usable sound. I'm currently assembling a "go direct" mainly analogue pedalboard with a SansAmp TriAC as the preamp. We'll see... 

chor808

We all go direct now, a five piece. I started with a pod go but have settled on pretty much what you are planning with a couple of vox valvenergy pedals as amp Sims and various other traditional pedals. Nothing really wrong with the pod go I just find it easy to tweak the pedals rather than get stuck into menus etc...

stickyfiddle

Everything through the PA virtually always sounds better than big amps behind the band unmicced. I will die on this hill. 

It doesn't matter whether you use big amps or small amps or modellers, but keeping sensible stage volumes and controlling it in both directions via monitors and PA is a MILES better for anyone but 3-chord punk bands

slacker

There's never only one solution. My band is very good at low stage levels especially with valve amps and mainly because we practiced in my spare room for a year. 

I play at home with a bad cat 30 2x12 combo. So my compromise is to use pedals. Live raise the amp and sideways it. Use a vertical cab. Use the master volume. 

Ampless isn't great imho unless you use a load to di.the you might as well use a speaker instead of a monitor.

The secret weapon is a drummer who can play quietly and sound good as well.

Rkphilpot

stickyfiddle said:

Everything through the PA virtually always sounds better than big amps behind the band unmicced. I will die on this hill. 

It doesn't matter whether you use big amps or small amps or modellers, but keeping sensible stage volumes and controlling it in both directions via monitors and PA is a MILES better for anyone but 3-chord punk bands

I'm in a three chord punk band and your method is the best way for us also!

Danny1969

It depends what you are going for. Personally for me live music has become too apologetic. The bands I play in don't subscribe to that. We use amps on stage, it's very loud and you know you are at a gig. Although we do a lot of wedding and corporate work we are booked as rock bands so again, it's loud like a proper gig. 

For an audience point of view I still prefer the PA as reinforcement to backline amps and acoustic drums. I like the drums, guitar and bass amps to almost work instrumentally on their own without the PA at all and then the PA just gives everything more spread and the ability to raise solo's etc as well as handling the vocals. 

I was on a cruise ship a few weeks ago watching some of the bands. The drums were plexi shielded, the guitars and bass were all DI modellers ... 60 % of it was BT triggered by the drummer and it just sounded so weak and apologetic. 

TheBigDipper

Danny1969 said:

It depends what you are going for. Personally for me live music has become too apologetic. The bands I play in don't subscribe to that. We use amps on stage, it's very loud and you know you are at a gig. Although we do a lot of wedding and corporate work we are booked as rock bands so again, it's loud like a proper gig. 

For an audience point of view I still prefer the PA as reinforcement to backline amps and acoustic drums. I like the drums, guitar and bass amps to almost work instrumentally on their own without the PA at all and then the PA just gives everything more spread and the ability to raise solo's etc as well as handling the vocals. 

I was on a cruise ship a few weeks ago watching some of the bands. The drums were plexi shielded, the guitars and bass were all DI modellers ... 60 % of it was BT triggered by the drummer and it just sounded so weak and apologetic. 

We went into the gig with the view that we'd do exactly this. But the space we were in defeated us - far too reflective and we just couldn't distinguish anything. So we compromised and got a sound we could work with and that the audience could hear. 

The band that folllowed us always goes direct (apparently) and they did sound a little flat from out front. I don't know how we sounded out front, but clips from phones were a bit more dynamic-sounding than the next band were.

26.2

Danny1969 said:

It depends what you are going for. Personally for me live music has become too apologetic. The bands I play in don't subscribe to that. We use amps on stage, it's very loud and you know you are at a gig. Although we do a lot of wedding and corporate work we are booked as rock bands so again, it's loud like a proper gig. 

For an audience point of view I still prefer the PA as reinforcement to backline amps and acoustic drums. I like the drums, guitar and bass amps to almost work instrumentally on their own without the PA at all and then the PA just gives everything more spread and the ability to raise solo's etc as well as handling the vocals. 

I was on a cruise ship a few weeks ago watching some of the bands. The drums were plexi shielded, the guitars and bass were all DI modellers ... 60 % of it was BT triggered by the drummer and it just sounded so weak and apologetic. 

So glad to hear someone say this.

shufflebeat

26.2 said:

Danny1969 said:

…it just sounded so weak and apologetic. 

So glad to hear someone say this.

Don’t discount the possibility that the venue had dictated a max SPL limit which stopped the band from doing anything other than that feeble fart.

Cruise ships and holiday camps are often quite Rock & Roll averse, partly due to their demographic.