Live sound in a smallish barn

Philtheguitar

Wedding gig - typical 5 piece function band material.
I've go the wonderful job of playing lead gtr, backing vocals and running FOH/Monitors!

Anyway - it's a typical 19th century barn - quite small, stone floors etc etc.
What are your approaches to live sound in these situations?

1. Delicate stage volume, everything into PA
2. Loud stage, vox only through PA

maltingsaudio

Everything through Pa, make sure you get halfway down the barn to hear the mix as the reflections off the wall is going to make things mushy , and high pass as much as you can

Philtheguitar

Thanks @maltingsaudio ;
With regards to low end (you said to high pass) - do you think it's worth using a sub for this type of gig?

stickyfiddle

Get a wireless pack so you can go to the back and hear everything while setting up.

I'm a 100% through PA guy - this gig would be no different

Jalapeno

All through the PA (assuming quiet on stage) means you need decent foldback, preferably with individul mixes .... it does get more and more complex as you go down this route - unless you've got a capable mixer (and someone to man it) I wouldn't bother unless you're stepping up for future gigs.

The Wireless, or a long lead for a soundcheck suggestion is worth it regardless. Try and do it with some people around or with a barn full of punters it'll sound totally different.

Philtheguitar

stickyfiddle said:

Get a wireless pack so you can go to the back and hear everything while setting up.

I'm a 100% through PA guy - this gig would be no different

Thank you.
I use a wireless already for exactly this purpose - game changer!

maltingsaudio

Philtheguitar said:

Thanks @maltingsaudio ;
With regards to low end (you said to high pass) - do you think it's worth using a sub for this type of gig?

I would mainly for the kick drum which is what they’ll be dancing to, for EQ ing the kick, give it a push at about 80 hz then cut everything above about 150 hz get the mic inside the drum if you can.

Philtheguitar

Jalapeno said:

All through the PA (assuming quiet on stage) means you need decent foldback, preferably with individul mixes .... it does get more and more complex as you go down this route - unless you've got a capable mixer (and someone to man it) I wouldn't bother unless you're stepping up for future gigs.

The Wireless, or a long lead for a soundcheck suggestion is worth it regardless. Try and do it with some people around or with a barn full of punters it'll sound totally different.

I'm using a behringer xr18 and have enough IEM packs for everyone. The only thing putting me off going this route is that we have only had one rehearsal together and IEMs can make you feel a little isolated, which isn't ideal in an under rehearsed scenario where it's almost better (IMO) to be able to communicate more easily.

Jalapeno

Philtheguitar said:

Jalapeno said:

All through the PA (assuming quiet on stage) means you need decent foldback, preferably with individul mixes .... it does get more and more complex as you go down this route - unless you've got a capable mixer (and someone to man it) I wouldn't bother unless you're stepping up for future gigs.

The Wireless, or a long lead for a soundcheck suggestion is worth it regardless. Try and do it with some people around or with a barn full of punters it'll sound totally different.

I'm using a behringer xr18 and have enough IEM packs for everyone. The only thing putting me off going this route is that we have only had one rehearsal together and IEMs can make you feel a little isolated, which isn't ideal in an under rehearsed scenario where it's almost better (IMO) to be able to communicate more easily.

true. That setup needs rehersal too if it's all new.

stickyfiddle

Philtheguitar said:

stickyfiddle said:

Get a wireless pack so you can go to the back and hear everything while setting up.

I'm a 100% through PA guy - this gig would be no different

Thank you.
I use a wireless already for exactly this purpose - game changer!

Excellent. I've just got one for exactly this reason - I'm tired of having soundguys who can't hear and/or don't listen...

Danny1969

It's the drums that tend to be the issue, particularly the snare. You might find the stone floor makes the snare loud and bright so that might need taming and the easiest way to do that is use some rugs on the floor. The drummer will have a mat but another couple either side under the amps and players will help. 

I always use low ish stage volume and PA doing the most work but at weddings in small venues people tend to be dancing right up against the wedge monitors ... so I'm not a fan of PA only in this regard. Otherwise those right up front will be dancing to a drum kit and whatever is in the wedges ...  which will be mainly vocals.
People tend to take a lot of video of the band at weddings so it needs to sound good all over, not just in front of the PA speakers. 

Don't use much reverb on the vocals, almost none. Use a delay of 250ms or so, kill it between numbers. Before you go on raise the level of the background music so it's not such a jump in volume when you start. 

Philtheguitar

Thanks so much @Danny1969 - I had't considered that!
I've done loads of gigs, but not with the mixing responsibility - it's amazing how much there is to think about that you wouldn't have considered.

Philtheguitar

I think I'm going to just prepare for both scenarios - just created a 'show' on the ipad so I'm ready when I get there. 

Philtheguitar

Danny1969 said:

It's the drums that tend to be the issue, particularly the snare. You might find the stone floor makes the snare loud and bright so that might need taming and the easiest way to do that is use some rugs on the floor. The drummer will have a mat but another couple either side under the amps and players will help. 

I always use low ish stage volume and PA doing the most work but at weddings in small venues people tend to be dancing right up against the wedge monitors ... so I'm not a fan of PA only in this regard. Otherwise those right up front will be dancing to a drum kit and whatever is in the wedges ...  which will be mainly vocals.
People tend to take a lot of video of the band at weddings so it needs to sound good all over, not just in front of the PA speakers. 

Don't use much reverb on the vocals, almost none. Use a delay of 250ms or so, kill it between numbers. Before you go on raise the level of the background music so it's not such a jump in volume when you start. 

Great tip about the delay - however I have enough of my own guitar faff to sort out between songs, I don;t want to be having to remember to mute/unmute the delay too!

Danny1969

I normally create a custom layer on the iPad that shows the things I need to get to quickly. Mainly vocals, effects and master volume of whatever aux send is running the wedges. 
Create a mute group for the effects and just hit the mute group button between songs .. becomes 2nd nature after a while. 

ICBM

(Well, it is in a barn! )

Philtheguitar

Had the gig last night - on the whole it went really well.
I opted to run everything into the PA, but rely on backline for monitoring. Gave the drummer an IEM, and singer had a wedge monitor.
Had a bit of trouble getting the kick to really 'hit' out of the sub. Not sure what the reasons were, but I ended up cranking the sub itself which helped. (gain levels seemed fine on the input so didn't want to add more).

Was VERY loud on stage. To be expected I suppose when the band is playing at the end of a brick room. Drummers always seem to be the major 'culprit' - though I'm reluctant to really blame them as drums are loud naturally and need to be played properly to produce a good sound.

Mate in the crowd said out front the balance was good, so I think a lot of the loudness was felt only in our stage area due to being at the end of a brick 'shoe box' of sorts.

IEMs all round in future gigs I reckon.

Cheers for all your help.

maltingsaudio

Great stuff glad it went well