The F1 thread

sweepy

Hamilton is probably the biggest marketing tool that F1 has in its Arsenal, if Mercedes are stupid enough to sack him, I think McLaren would fall over themselves to give him a one year deal .

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

If they're going to sack him, why would they let him back in the car? It's also going to cost them a fortune to sack him as he's the highest earner for Daimler AG by far with two years left to run on his contract. If they sack him for misconduct he can take them to the court of arbitration and the WMSC claiming that their instructions to throw his WDC away was not a reasonable request and he'd be awarded his legal costs on top. Their request was unprecedented. Merc are in f1 for PR and sacking him would be a PR disaster, except for those that despise him because of the colour of his skin.

stickyfiddle

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

If they're going to sack him, why would they let him back in the car? It's also going to cost them a fortune to sack him as he's the highest earner for Daimler AG by far with two years left to run on his contract. If they sack him for misconduct he can take them to the court of arbitration and the WMSC claiming that their instructions to throw his WDC away was not a reasonable request and he'd be awarded his legal costs on top. Their request was unprecedented. Merc are in f1 for PR and sacking him would be a PR disaster, except for those that despise him because of the colour of his skin.

All of this. I could imagine them going for a termination by mutual consent at the end of 2017 but there's no way they'll kick him now.

Fretwired

paul_c2 said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

....rumour started by the Daily Mail......say no more.

I heard it from someone close to F1 .. I doubt he reads the DM. Apparently the Mercedes board are unhappy. I see Jackie Stewart has waded into the debate.

Garthy

Jackie Stewart is an attention seeking cretin who would say the moon landings were faked if it got him in the news. He did great things in the 1970s for safety in motorsport but over the last 20 years he has turned into a rentagob.

Fretwired

stickyfiddle said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

If they're going to sack him, why would they let him back in the car? It's also going to cost them a fortune to sack him as he's the highest earner for Daimler AG by far with two years left to run on his contract. If they sack him for misconduct he can take them to the court of arbitration and the WMSC claiming that their instructions to throw his WDC away was not a reasonable request and he'd be awarded his legal costs on top. Their request was unprecedented. Merc are in f1 for PR and sacking him would be a PR disaster, except for those that despise him because of the colour of his skin.

All of this. I could imagine them going for a termination by mutual consent at the end of 2017 but there's no way they'll kick him now.

It seems other stuff is coming out of the woodwork - Hamilton's been accused of blackmailing Woolf and Mercedes over his crash with Rosberg. If they penalised him he wouldn't race for Mercedes. When asked Hamilton said 'no comment' ....

Hoof

Jackie Stewart, as much as I respect him for his acheivements on the track and within the sport in general, seems to think that F1 is still the gentlemans sport it was back in his day. The drivers today have dedicated their lives since before most of them can even remember to becoming F1 drivers and all have had to hold the belief that they have what it takes to become world champion. 

In his day people with the oppurtunity took up racing in their late teens/early 20s and waded into a much shallower pool of talent, from the drivers down to the designers and engineers. That's why grids in the 50s and 60s were mostly made up of daredevil toffs in past seasons cars bought second hand or the truly talented drivers in the few cars on the grid that were truly cutting edge and capable of winning. These guys, Stewart included, rose to the top with ease and stayed there until they either retired, were bettered or sadly killed in all too frequent accidents.

It's a totally different sport these days and that has changed the whole ethos of racing. Drivers can be and have to be more ruthless and determined.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

stickyfiddle said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

If they're going to sack him, why would they let him back in the car? It's also going to cost them a fortune to sack him as he's the highest earner for Daimler AG by far with two years left to run on his contract. If they sack him for misconduct he can take them to the court of arbitration and the WMSC claiming that their instructions to throw his WDC away was not a reasonable request and he'd be awarded his legal costs on top. Their request was unprecedented. Merc are in f1 for PR and sacking him would be a PR disaster, except for those that despise him because of the colour of his skin.

All of this. I could imagine them going for a termination by mutual consent at the end of 2017 but there's no way they'll kick him now.

It seems other stuff is coming out of the woodwork - Hamilton's been accused of blackmailing Woolf and Mercedes over his crash with Rosberg. If they penalised him he wouldn't race for Mercedes. When asked Hamilton said 'no comment' ....

That's not blackmail, it's standing up for your principles. If you don't have the backing of your team then what's the point, especially when you're in the right, it was the second of three occasions Rosberg had either hit him intentionally or drove him off the road.

I think who-ever your source is in the paddock is a) hearing Chinese whispers and b) doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

The other thing is who would Merc replace him with:

Vettel- incredibly combustible, has a proven record of ignoring team orders for several teams, has previously tried to force a team mate off the road and combative with his own team x2. Had he been driving a Merc in Mexico with his radio calls telling Charilie to fuck off, Wolff would have gone apeshit.

Vestappen- win it or bin it, ignores team orders for two teams already and remember this is what you want Merc to sack Hamilton for.

Wherlien- fighting for a Manor seat not because a lack of talent or cash but because he is a complete arsehole.

Occon-unproven and a last resort.

Alonso- yes that would be harmonious after 2007, his blackmailing cost Mclaren $100m!

Button, spent most of the year unmotivated and couldn't be bothered.

There is not one driver that would improve the situation, they may as well stick with what they have and worry about it in the summer of 2018.

Fretwired

Garthy said:

That's not blackmail, it's standing up for your principles. If you don't have the backing of your team then what's the point, especially when you're in the right, it was the second of three occasions Rosberg had either hit him intentionally or drove him off the road.

I think who-ever your source is in the paddock is a) hearing Chinese whispers and b) doesn't know as much as he thinks he does.

I don't think Merc see it that way - they are a multi-billion dollar car company and Woolf is a man who burns on a short fuse. He's been made to look stupid and team orders have been abandoned - Stewart is right when he says a driver should follow orders and Horner is right when he says Mercedes were naive if they thought Hamilton would toe the line . Rosberg is on a high, Hamilton wants his crown back and next year is likely to be tough with the new regs so the last thing Mercedes need is a driver who doesn't drive for the team and is in a personal battle with his team mate. It's clear Woolf can't control Hamilton so what do they do? Fining him won't get them anywhere - he makes too much money outside F1. Suspending him is not an option as if he misses a few races it damages the constructors title chase.

Source works with an F1 team and yes it could be paddock gossip  .... I think Merc are looking at options. Could also be a leak from Mercedes or another team to shake up the paddock to see if anything moves .. maybe Ferrari are prepared to swap Vettel for Hamilton. Vettel has always said he'd love to drive for Mercedes.

I think Mercedes have a problem that I'm not sure they can fix.

Garthy

I would bet my last penny that the source is affiliated with Alonso.

stickyfiddle

Garthy said:

I would bet my last penny that the source is affiliated with Alonso.

I have to say I would *LOVE* to see Fred back in a proper racing car for his last couple of seasons...

Reasonable to assume he'd smash Rosberg, and have a cracking fight with Max, Ricciardo and Vettel. 

Fretwired

Garthy said:

I would bet my last penny that the source is affiliated with Alonso.

Interesting thought. The new guy at McLaren said he'd love to sign Hamilton but said he rated both his current drivers - could be the F1 equivalent of a football club chairman praising a manager just before he was fired.

Garthy

Fretwired said:

Garthy said:

I would bet my last penny that the source is affiliated with Alonso.

Interesting thought. The new guy at McLaren siad he'd love to sign Hamilton but said he rated both his current drivers - could be the F1 equivalent of a football club chairman praising a manager just before he was fired.

Alonso has made no secret that he wanted to be in the Merc since winter testing 2014. He is the most political driver since Prost and would quite happily upset the apple cart to enable a vacancy at Mercedes. Now while his fans have been hoping that he will walk into Hamilton's vacant seat, the guy has all of Hamilton's problems but magnified and a few more of his own.

Yes or no, would he have willingly thrown his championship away on Sunday to enable his team mate to lift the crown? It's a rhetorical question because he's already had a team mate fix a race, he blackmailed a team principle and three of the four teams he's driven for have been in front of the WMSC for espionage & race fixing.

gavin_axecaster

Interesting that Hamilton has finally congratulated Rosberg on Facebook.
His post on 27th was just about himself and his season but about an hour ago he posted the following.
"We said we'd be champions back then, now we both are! Congratulations Nico, you did everything a champion needed to do. Well deserved"

https://www.facebook.com/LewisHamilton/posts/1409256842488973:0

siremoon

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

If they're going to sack him, why would they let him back in the car? It's also going to cost them a fortune to sack him as he's the highest earner for Daimler AG by far with two years left to run on his contract. If they sack him for misconduct he can take them to the court of arbitration and the WMSC claiming that their instructions to throw his WDC away was not a reasonable request and he'd be awarded his legal costs on top. Their request was unprecedented. Merc are in f1 for PR and sacking him would be a PR disaster, except for those that despise him because of the colour of his skin.

Every F1 driver contract contains a clause requiring them to comply with all team instructions.  The radio calls made it clear that instructions were being given.  Hamilton declined to follow those instructions and thus he is clearly in breach of his contract.

goldtop

siremoon said:

Garthy said:

Fretwired said:

Hamilton to be sacked? That's the rumour floating around the tyre test that he pulled out of after a few laps.

If they're going to sack him, why would they let him back in the car? It's also going to cost them a fortune to sack him as he's the highest earner for Daimler AG by far with two years left to run on his contract. If they sack him for misconduct he can take them to the court of arbitration and the WMSC claiming that their instructions to throw his WDC away was not a reasonable request and he'd be awarded his legal costs on top. Their request was unprecedented. Merc are in f1 for PR and sacking him would be a PR disaster, except for those that despise him because of the colour of his skin.

Every F1 driver contract contains a clause requiring them to comply with all team instructions.  The radio calls made it clear that instructions were being given.  Hamilton declined to follow those instructions and thus he is clearly in breach of his contract.

Can you post this contract here, for all of us to see it? No. You can't - it's pure supposition. Every clause in every contract has a context. That context is the rest of the contract, the laws of the sport and the laws of the relevant jursidiction.

Just for instance, there may be a clause which requires the team to do all it can to provide the driver with the best chance of winning the DWC.

Heartfeltdawn

siremoon said:

Every F1 driver contract contains a clause requiring them to comply with all team instructions.  The radio calls made it clear that instructions were being given.  Hamilton declined to follow those instructions and thus he is clearly in breach of his contract.

Wonder how that worked for Vettel and Webber in the Red Bull argument days then. 

As Goldtop says above. 

Fretwired

Heartfeltdawn said:

siremoon said:

Every F1 driver contract contains a clause requiring them to comply with all team instructions.  The radio calls made it clear that instructions were being given.  Hamilton declined to follow those instructions and thus he is clearly in breach of his contract.

Wonder how that worked for Vettel and Webber in the Red Bull argument days then. 

As Goldtop says above. 

The clause is in the contract. The problem is when a team has ex-world champions like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel who are happy to break the rules. Red Bull had a four-time world champion. Mercedes have a three time world champion and a driver who the team principles think was the best in the 2016 season. Rosberg came third.

What do you do? The fans like bad boys and they tend to be winners. Will Mercedes cave in (likely) or will they be happy to throw Hamilton under a bus if they could secure Vettel or Alonso? Far more entertaining than most races.

The other option for Mercedes is to replace Woolf - he shoots his mouth off and seems unable to control difficult situations unlike Horner at Red Bull.

goldtop

Fretwired said:

The clause is in the contract.

Again, please post the full contract. Context is everything.

Heartfeltdawn

Fretwired said:

The clause is in the contract. The problem is when a team has ex-world champions like Alonso, Hamilton and Vettel who are happy to break the rules. Red Bull had a four-time world champion. Mercedes have a three time world champion and a driver who the team principles think was the best in the 2016 season. Rosberg came third.

What do you do? The fans like bad boys and they tend to be winners. Will Mercedes cave in (likely) or will they be happy to throw Hamilton under a bus if they could secure Vettel or Alonso? Far more entertaining than most races.

The other option for Mercedes is to replace Woolf - he shoots his mouth off and seems unable to control difficult situations unlike Horner at Red Bull.

Link me to a copy of that contract detailing that clause and we can discuss what's actually written rather than making presumptions. F1 contracts are not exactly solid: ask Guido Van der Garde what it was like to have a valid contract with Sauber... 

Bad boys tend to be winners - yep. Winners in F1 tend to be self-centred gits, as some of the Americans found out when Mansell went overseas. That self-obsession and arrogance is part of what they need to get up to the top step in most cases. Woolf versus Horner: Horner didn't exactly handle a difficult situation with Renault particularly well and was more than prone to shooting his mouth off during that period. Like drivers, some of the top brass are afflicted with their own self-importance. 

As much as Mercedes would like to pretend that it's all about the team, the actual media interest is in the individual.  

All this episode has done is to demonstrate how much F1 needs Hamilton. Whether he needs F1 is a far more interesting topic.