The F1 thread

Fretwired

FIA is going to have an investigation or a whitewash ... it won't affect the result though

https://www.planetf1.com/news/fia-announce-abu-dhabi-investigation/

Rich210

DesVegas said:

Max did have to overtake Lewis on that last lap. I know he had better tyres and all the cars moved out the way but an element of skill was still required to win

And where was Carlos Sainz when this was happening? He was allowed to be on MV's wheels. 

danishbacon

Haych said:

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you all. 

Get your lols at the ready. 

About ten laps to go Christian Horner says they need a miracle to win. A couple of laps later Latifi crashes into the barrier, in Coulthard’s words - racing no one but himself, causing the safety car to come out. 

During the SC period there’s pressure from RB to clear the cars between LH and MV. 

Was it a contingency plan all along in case Lewis walked away with the race lead?  It perhaps didn’t pan out quite the way it was supposed to with the back markers between Lewis and Max, hence Horner’s protests, the clearing of the backmarkers and the botched safety car rules. 

Max gets the win, Latifi cashes in somehow, maybe a drive in a Red Bull a couple of seasons from now, or maybe a payday, maybe both. 

Daft as it seems it wouldn’t be the first time in sport the players had been paid off and the outcome fixed or manipulated. 

Go on, get your lols in. I would if I could.

As soon as CH came on live to say ‘we need a miracle’ I had a sense something was going to happen with a backmarker. Felt my premonition was vindicated by everyone that followed afterwards. 

After the fact, watching back onboards of latifi and his instinctive reaction to the crash/downshifting to N to preserve drivetrain I very much doubt it was deliberate. 

Boromedic

The FIA investigation is an interesting development but as Fretwired said, it won't change the result. I see that cretin Horner has defended Masi after spending the season belittling him and basically undermining him at any opportunity. 

Mercedes should take it as legal as possible just to stop this happening again if nothing else.

skullfunkerry

Obviously unless someone does a Nelson Piquet Jr and 'fesses up we'll never know for sure but I'm certain in my own mind that it's not some sort of orchestrated conspiracy; purely based on working for a huge organisation (the NHS) where it was impossible to keep a secret even between people in one office, nevermind all the different teams and departments that would have to be in on something as big as fixing the world championship. It's the same as 9/11 - someone would have told their mate, who would have mentioned it to his wife, who would have told her friend on pain of death, and so on and so on.

stickyfiddle

I don't believe Latifi would crash on purpose. But I can 100% believe the FIA & Liberty would agree a conceptual "if late accident, then safety car" policy. I just still don't understand why they wouldn't red flag it

Haych

skullfunkerry said:

Obviously unless someone does a Nelson Piquet Jr and 'fesses up we'll never know for sure but I'm certain in my own mind that it's not some sort of orchestrated conspiracy; purely based on working for a huge organisation (the NHS) where it was impossible to keep a secret even between people in one office, nevermind all the different teams and departments that would have to be in on something as big as fixing the world championship. It's the same as 9/11 - someone would have told their mate, who would have mentioned it to his wife, who would have told her friend on pain of death, and so on and so on.

Yes, I completely agree that it's absurd to think it could be fixed this way since it would require cooperation of the FIA, Red Bull, Williams and probably others.

The danger isn't that somebody in the collusion circle might talk, the problem is that they'd have to approach multiple people/teams to make it work and they'd have to hit a hole in one with every person they approached every single time.

The chances of that are next to impossible.  You'd only want one person who was approached and refused to blow the whistle on the whole thing.

That said, I'm sure there are many in the F1 machine who are pleased, for one reason or another, that Lewis Hamilton didn't surpass Michael Schumacher's seven world titles.

chillidoggy

Haych said:

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you all. 

Get your lols at the ready. 

About ten laps to go Christian Horner says they need a miracle to win. A couple of laps later Latifi crashes into the barrier, in Coulthard’s words - racing no one but himself, causing the safety car to come out. 

During the SC period there’s pressure from RB to clear the cars between LH and MV. 

Was it a contingency plan all along in case Lewis walked away with the race lead?  It perhaps didn’t pan out quite the way it was supposed to with the back markers between Lewis and Max, hence Horner’s protests, the clearing of the backmarkers and the botched safety car rules. 

Max gets the win, Latifi cashes in somehow, maybe a drive in a Red Bull a couple of seasons from now, or maybe a payday, maybe both. 

Daft as it seems it wouldn’t be the first time in sport the players had been paid off and the outcome fixed or manipulated. 

Go on, get your lols in. I would if I could.

You are the scriptwriter for 'Mission Impossible' and claim my £10.

markr76

Latifi just had a loss of talent. It could of happened to any driver. 

Haych

chillidoggy said:

Haych said:

Here’s a conspiracy theory for you all. 

Get your lols at the ready. 

About ten laps to go Christian Horner says they need a miracle to win. A couple of laps later Latifi crashes into the barrier, in Coulthard’s words - racing no one but himself, causing the safety car to come out. 

During the SC period there’s pressure from RB to clear the cars between LH and MV. 

Was it a contingency plan all along in case Lewis walked away with the race lead?  It perhaps didn’t pan out quite the way it was supposed to with the back markers between Lewis and Max, hence Horner’s protests, the clearing of the backmarkers and the botched safety car rules. 

Max gets the win, Latifi cashes in somehow, maybe a drive in a Red Bull a couple of seasons from now, or maybe a payday, maybe both. 

Daft as it seems it wouldn’t be the first time in sport the players had been paid off and the outcome fixed or manipulated. 

Go on, get your lols in. I would if I could.

You are the scriptwriter for 'Mission Impossible' and claim my £10.

I wish mate, just an overactive imagination, and over thinker and probably too much sauce late into the evening.....

goldtop

Like I said above, many people (the Tifosi, especially) accused Glock of taking some sort of bung from McLaren to let Hamilton past on the last lap of 2008. It was BS then and the same now.

Majorscale

Mercedes have officially withdrawn their appeal. 

goldtop

I would love to be a fly on the wall for the back-channelling that's going on.

stickyfiddle

Statement from Merc. TLDR: no appeal because the FIA has committed to sorting shit out. Correct result imo, in the circumstances. 

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441

Dear Formula 1 community and fans,

We left Abu Dhabi in disbelief of what we had just witnessed. Of course, it’s part of the game to lose a race, but it’s something different when you lose faith in racing.

Together with Lewis, we have deliberated carefully over how to respond to the events at the Formula 1 season finale. We have always been guided by our love of this sport and we believe that every competition should be won on merit. In the race on Sunday many felt, us included, that the way things unfolded was not right.

The reason we protested the race result on Sunday was because the Safety Car regulations were applied in a new way that affected the race result, after Lewis had been in a commanding lead and on course to win the world championship.

We appealed in the interest of sporting fairness, and we have since been in a constructive dialogue with the FIA and Formula 1 to create clarity for the future, so that all competitors know the rules under which they are racing, and how they will be enforced. Thus, we welcome the decision by the FIA to install a commission to thoroughly analyse what happened in Abu Dhabi and to improve the robustness of rules, governance and decision making in Formula 1. We also welcome that they have invited the teams and drivers to take part.

The Mercedes-AMG Petronas team will actively work with this commission to build a better Formula 1 – for every team and every fan who loves this sport as much as we do. We will hold the FIA accountable for this process and we hereby withdraw our appeal.

To Max Verstappen and Red Bull Racing: we would like to express our sincere respect for your achievements this season. You made this Formula 1 championship title fight truly epic. Max, we congratulate you and your entire team. We look forward to taking the fight to you on the track next season.

And lastly, even though this drivers’ championship did not end the way we hoped, we could not be prouder of our team.

Lewis, you are the greatest racer in the history of Formula 1 and you drove your heart out for every lap of this incredible season. You’re a flawless sportsman on and off the track and you delivered a faultless performance. As a pure competitor and as a role model for millions around the world, we salute you.

Valtteri, you have been such an important part of this team, delivering five constructors’ championships in five seasons. Thank you for your remarkable contribution to our motorsport history. Kiitos, Valtteri.

Finally, to every one of the skilled and passionate women and men of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team in Brackley and High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth: you’ve written an historic chapter in the Silver Arrow story by winning the eighth constructors’ championship – in a row. This is an unprecedented achievement. In simple words: it’s awesome. You are awesome.

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

Statement from Merc. TLDR: no appeal because the FIA has committed to sorting shit out. Correct result imo, in the circumstances. 

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441

Dear Formula 1 community and fans,

We left Abu Dhabi in disbelief of what we had just witnessed. Of course, it’s part of the game to lose a race, but it’s something different when you lose faith in racing.

Together with Lewis, we have deliberated carefully over how to respond to the events at the Formula 1 season finale. We have always been guided by our love of this sport and we believe that every competition should be won on merit. In the race on Sunday many felt, us included, that the way things unfolded was not right.

The reason we protested the race result on Sunday was because the Safety Car regulations were applied in a new way that affected the race result, after Lewis had been in a commanding lead and on course to win the world championship.

We appealed in the interest of sporting fairness, and we have since been in a constructive dialogue with the FIA and Formula 1 to create clarity for the future, so that all competitors know the rules under which they are racing, and how they will be enforced. Thus, we welcome the decision by the FIA to install a commission to thoroughly analyse what happened in Abu Dhabi and to improve the robustness of rules, governance and decision making in Formula 1. We also welcome that they have invited the teams and drivers to take part.

The Mercedes-AMG Petronas team will actively work with this commission to build a better Formula 1 – for every team and every fan who loves this sport as much as we do. We will hold the FIA accountable for this process and we hereby withdraw our appeal.

To Max Verstappen and Red Bull Racing: we would like to express our sincere respect for your achievements this season. You made this Formula 1 championship title fight truly epic. Max, we congratulate you and your entire team. We look forward to taking the fight to you on the track next season.

And lastly, even though this drivers’ championship did not end the way we hoped, we could not be prouder of our team.

Lewis, you are the greatest racer in the history of Formula 1 and you drove your heart out for every lap of this incredible season. You’re a flawless sportsman on and off the track and you delivered a faultless performance. As a pure competitor and as a role model for millions around the world, we salute you.

Valtteri, you have been such an important part of this team, delivering five constructors’ championships in five seasons. Thank you for your remarkable contribution to our motorsport history. Kiitos, Valtteri.

Finally, to every one of the skilled and passionate women and men of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team in Brackley and High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth: you’ve written an historic chapter in the Silver Arrow story by winning the eighth constructors’ championship – in a row. This is an unprecedented achievement. In simple words: it’s awesome. You are awesome.

Cool. I’m awesome!

stickyfiddle

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Statement from Merc. TLDR: no appeal because the FIA has committed to sorting shit out. Correct result imo, in the circumstances. 

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441

…

Finally, to every one of the skilled and passionate women and men of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team in Brackley and High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth: you’ve written an historic chapter in the Silver Arrow story by winning the eighth constructors’ championship – in a row. This is an unprecedented achievement. In simple words: it’s awesome. You are awesome.

Cool. I’m awesome!

Damn right. Did you do the front wing that kept Lewis going in Jeddah? 

And I assume the xmas bonus will be decent ?

skullfunkerry

Haych said:

skullfunkerry said:

Obviously unless someone does a Nelson Piquet Jr and 'fesses up we'll never know for sure but I'm certain in my own mind that it's not some sort of orchestrated conspiracy; purely based on working for a huge organisation (the NHS) where it was impossible to keep a secret even between people in one office, nevermind all the different teams and departments that would have to be in on something as big as fixing the world championship. It's the same as 9/11 - someone would have told their mate, who would have mentioned it to his wife, who would have told her friend on pain of death, and so on and so on.

Yes, I completely agree that it's absurd to think it could be fixed this way since it would require cooperation of the FIA, Red Bull, Williams and probably others.

The danger isn't that somebody in the collusion circle might talk, the problem is that they'd have to approach multiple people/teams to make it work and they'd have to hit a hole in one with every person they approached every single time.

The chances of that are next to impossible.  You'd only want one person who was approached and refused to blow the whistle on the whole thing.

That said, I'm sure there are many in the F1 machine who are pleased, for one reason or another, that Lewis Hamilton didn't surpass Michael Schumacher's seven world titles.

...yet

markr76

stickyfiddle said:

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Statement from Merc. TLDR: no appeal because the FIA has committed to sorting shit out. Correct result imo, in the circumstances. 

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441

…

Finally, to every one of the skilled and passionate women and men of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team in Brackley and High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth: you’ve written an historic chapter in the Silver Arrow story by winning the eighth constructors’ championship – in a row. This is an unprecedented achievement. In simple words: it’s awesome. You are awesome.

Cool. I’m awesome!

Damn right. Did you do the front wing that kept Lewis going in Jeddah? 

And I assume the xmas bonus will be decent ?

I couldn’t tell you about the front wing. We make so many I don’t know which one goes to which driver. Our front wing is very strong though. It’s mad the the front wing assembly, including the nose. Is probably the most work intensive and expensive part of the car after the chassis. It’s also the easiest part to Knock off!!

we usually get our bonus at the end on January. But they have moved it forward to December pay this year. Which I personally prefer. Although it is something to look forward to as January is my least favourite month! We get our bonus based off the constructors championship. So it’s a full bonus for us. The drivers championship is just the prestigious championship. I think Renault f1 used to pay their staff bonus for the constructors and an additional bonus if they got the drivers too. 

Simonh

stickyfiddle said:

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Statement from Merc. TLDR: no appeal because the FIA has committed to sorting shit out. Correct result imo, in the circumstances. 

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441

…

Finally, to every one of the skilled and passionate women and men of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team in Brackley and High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth: you’ve written an historic chapter in the Silver Arrow story by winning the eighth constructors’ championship – in a row. This is an unprecedented achievement. In simple words: it’s awesome. You are awesome.

Cool. I’m awesome!

Damn right. Did you do the front wing that kept Lewis going in Jeddah? 

And I assume the xmas bonus will be decent ?

I'd heard it was a £10k bonus for every employee when Merc win the WDC.

I think Occams razor applies here, I don't think the race was fixed but I do think Masi took advantage of the opportunity that presented itself to "create" a showcase finale, and I do think that decisions have gone Red Bulls way this year to ensure they stay in the fight which is why Max hasn't been punished enough for his antics.

markr76

Simonh said:

stickyfiddle said:

markr76 said:

stickyfiddle said:

Statement from Merc. TLDR: no appeal because the FIA has committed to sorting shit out. Correct result imo, in the circumstances. 

https://twitter.com/MercedesAMGF1/status/1471419870680125441

…

Finally, to every one of the skilled and passionate women and men of the Mercedes-AMG Petronas F1 Team in Brackley and High Performance Powertrains in Brixworth: you’ve written an historic chapter in the Silver Arrow story by winning the eighth constructors’ championship – in a row. This is an unprecedented achievement. In simple words: it’s awesome. You are awesome.

Cool. I’m awesome!

Damn right. Did you do the front wing that kept Lewis going in Jeddah? 

And I assume the xmas bonus will be decent ?

I'd heard it was a £10k bonus for every employee when Merc win the WDC.

I think Occams razor applies here, I don't think the race was fixed but I do think Masi took advantage of the opportunity that presented itself to "create" a showcase finale, and I do think that decisions have gone Red Bulls way this year to ensure they stay in the fight which is why Max hasn't been punished enough for his antics.

Yeah it’s £10k which is pretty standard across all the teams. But the bonus is payed out for constructors standings not the drivers championship. Most of the top teams only get bonus for finishing 1st-3rd in the standings. Some of the smaller teams give a bonus for points scored. They’d never get any bonus otherwise. The staff at the smaller teams have to work just as hard so they deserve something I guess. The way the top teams think is if we finish lower than 3rd we have failed and don’t deserve anything!

I don’t think Masi set out with the intention to fixing the race. I just think he’s way out of his depth and he is weak. He let himself be bullied into making a stupid decision.