Re-fret vs fret dress... and fret divots

thomasross20

My OM-02 is 20 years old. 
It is still my favourite (sapele is so well balanced). 
It's the guitar I'd grab out of a burning building despite recent purchases. So it is highly valued to me. 

It's been 20+ years and within the next 2-3 years it is going to need either a re-fret or fret dress.
--> Unsure which to get.

Fret dress means lower frets and unsure if will notice the difference. 
For a second, I considered doing a fret dress myself then thought "no way"
I think if frets are dressed, the nut & saddle needs to come down to match the newly reduced fret height. 
As it is, the action is perfect so I'm loathe to have that touched but maybe it would need to be done, regardless. 
Apparently, nut wear means that it naturally comes down a bit, anyway. 
I'm not sure if tusq (the nut on it) wears more slowly than bone. 

As an aside, I like tusq - self-lubricating and is synthetic and thus "uniform."
This video is great. In the arpeggio section, tusq sounds fantastic.
 


Anyway. also thinking I could just bite the bullet and get a full new fret job. 
And who to use. I know some places straighten the neck and have at it. I think Feline do it a bit differently and I'm impressed with the write-up on their site, though it's a long way to go to get that done (but I would, so that it's perfect). Anybody got any specific recommendations (I'm in Scotland) or comments? 

The other thing is that some of the fingerboard wood has slight depressions / divots. Nothing major. 
I've read they can either be steamed out or wood shavings of the same material can be glued in. 
Probably something I'd get done at the same time. Anybody had similar fixed? 


It's great to have a well-used 20+ year guitar, there's real history there and I swear it really does sound better after all these years. 

Mellish

@thomasross20 ;

PM'd  

earwighoney

I seem to follow a lot of luthiers in Scotland, I'm sure one of them would be able to do fret work for you.  Feline are great but I'm sure you could find something closer to you. 

Do you have a picture of your frets? 

I'd leave the fingernail fretboard wear if I was you.  It's largely an aesthetic thing.  

thomasross20

Thanks, guys. Here's a quick pic I took this morning - my GLORIOUS OM-02. 

You can see the divot and although not the best pic for showing fretwear, you can sort of see it (I'm out just now so no more pics as yet). Doesn't need it right now but in future... Larrivee frets are quite flat. 

FelineGuitars

we'd happily take a look, but there are some good techs in scotland 

A brief look brings up Chris based in Edinburgh, who I used to know when he was London 

https://www.mcintyreguitars.com/

BillDL

If the frets only have divots up until about the 5th or 6th frets, and the remainder don't show much or any sign of divots and wear, I'm sure you could get a partial refret using matching fretwire.  I'm pretty sure Larrivée will use a standard sized fret wire that should be easy enough to match rather than having their own fretwire made specially for them.  If it then needed a new nut that's an easy enough job for a tech and not very expensive.

As for the fretboard fingernail dent, I would just leave it as it is because it's part of the 20 year play history and it shouldn't be interfering with accurate fretting.

I'm not sure whether Billy Finlayson is still the in-house tech for GuitarGuitar in Glasgow, but you could give them a call.  If you try going to his website at the moment you will get a "certificate expired" security risk alert.  He's had issues with this in the past.  You could contact him via facebook,  twitter, or instagram.  He is a master luthier that now has his own range made for him by Godin.

thermionic

A good tech should be able to level and crown without resorting to re-fret, quite easily. I once bought a used MIM Tele and thought I’d bought a turkey due to the depth of the grooves. It was like new after a fret dress.

thomasross20

The Larrivee frets are a bit shallow, I think. But if dressing is all they need then great. 

Have had a lot of great suggestions, thank you (@Mellish et al). 
And thanks @FelineGuitars - your blurb on your website re how you do your fret work does read well. 

Haven't used Chris but good to get the recommendation.
@BillDL Billy is who I got my PRS from at guitarguitar many moons ago!

So I want to get some stuff recorded with this and it's over a year away (especially given all my new ones, so it gets a bit less play time) but all the above duly noted - thank you!

BillDL

thermionic said:

A good tech should be able to level and crown without resorting to re-fret, quite easily. I once bought a used MIM Tele and thought I’d bought a turkey due to the depth of the grooves. It was like new after a fret dress.

That's very true. My reasoning for suggesting the possibility of a partial refret rather than a fret dress is twofold and particularly relevant to acoustic guitars that tend to get fret wear on frets down at the nut end rather than electric guitars where frets can get worn all over the neck.  If the vast majority of the frets have almost no wear at all, instead of taking height off them to fix the few pitted and worn frets, doing a partial refret will retain the height of the vast majority of frets.

tomjax

I'd be going for a partial refret looking at the pictures. Had it done on a couple of guitars and worked well. Save you some cash too!

ICBM

Looking at the pics, I'm sure a fret dress will sort it without needing any frets replaced. The wear is never as bad as it looks visually, and that doesn't even look bad at all. If the frets don't feel too low when the strings are at the bottom of the current grooves, they won't feel too low afterwards if the luthier takes the *minimum* possible amount off - which they should. The idea is to reduce the height to that of the lowest groove, no lower - I even prefer to do a 'taper dress' so the top frets (with no wear) are not touched at all, and progressively lower (keeping the tops in a flat plane) towards the nut. This is similar to a compound radius board in that it helps easier chording at the lower end while retaining easier fretting and bending higher up.

I would leave the fingerboard wear as it is. It provides a tiny bit more clearance for your nail in that position (which is why it's there, of course) and if you have it filled it will just rapidly wear out again.

thomasross20

Thanks again, guys - doesn't need it immediately but all noted. 
Points taken re leaving the fretboard wear as-is. 
I quite like seeing a well-used fretboard! These things are meant to be played!

jw_H-535

Always look to dress before a re fret. No matter how good the Luthier a re-fret is major surgery and could easily drastically change the feel of your guitar.

thomasross20

Oh I would hope not  

TheMadMick

thomasross20 said:

Oh I would hope not  

It's not always for the worse. My friend had a partial refret on his Takamine and it improved the action by quite a margin - especially around the top frets.

FelineGuitars

jw_H-535 said:

Always look to dress before a re fret. No matter how good the Luthier a re-fret is major surgery and could easily drastically change the feel of your guitar.

With a carefully done partial refret it is highly unlikely to change things except for the better, but choose your tech with care.

Typically with a partial refret you are not levelling the wood to any great degree, and you should be choosing wire of the same height as the original wire - you are simply turning back the clock.

I have been asked occasionally for a slightly wider (not taller) wire for those first 6/7 frets and it has added a touch of ease or comfort but not a radical shift in wire profile, but typically you use the same wire profile.

thomasross20

What does "leveling the wood" mean in this regard? 

Number one point for me is to make sure the person doing it is highly recommended and I'd pay for that, when the time comes.

FelineGuitars

thomasross20 said:

What does "leveling the wood" mean in this regard? 

Number one point for me is to make sure the person doing it is highly recommended and I'd pay for that, when the time comes.

When refretting it is typical or advisable to true up the neck if possible by sanding the neck perfectly level or some adjustment where needed.
With a partial refret you wouldn't be doing that - maybe just a local clean up around the slots where the frets were pulled out.

lots of pics of that process here : https://felineguitars.com/pages/spotlight-refret-for-guitarists-dave-burrluck

thomasross20

Oooh thanks for that!

Mr_Claw

If the fboard divot isn't bothering you *too* much then I'd prob leave as-is on a guitar of that quality. 

Otherwise your luthier might be able to do the old superglue and wood-dust trick. It looks like it's an ebony board right? Prob wouldn't show up too much on that. I've done it myself on an old Squier tele with rosewood dust and and the results came out pretty well - a bit of a darker patch, but then that was on a rosewood fboard.

Either way, I'd let your luthier advise. Feline are my local and I trust them.

Soupman

@FelineGuitars great article.
My Lowden needs a set up, pity you're not nearer Newcastle!