What makes a good bass?

HilditchGuitars

Afternoon all. I'm starting to build bass #2 and as I'm no bass player I'm after some ideas and opinions on what makes a good bass - particularly hardware and pickups. My first one was an order so the client spec'd it all for me, although I was so impressed by the Fishmans that I made a 7 string guitar as an excuse to use some again. 

I've made a thread in Making and Modding too, some of you may have seen, for suggestions of what would work well and look good at the same time. But it would be good to get some ideas on other areas that all add up to the whole package. It will be the same shape again as I already had the body lying there when the idea struck,.

Here's the #1 for reference. We did a belly cut on the back too

Funkfingers

Which Fishman pickups did the customer request?

I am very taken with the idea of the Mike Inez signature pickup … to the extent that I would have one in the P position and not bother with a bridge position pickup.

Duncan/Basslines NYC soapbars are interesting in some modes and a bit dull in others.

EMG-35 series soapbars are fine but can sound a bit samey unless combined with onboard active EQ.

Nordstrand, Delano, Aguilar, Bartolini, the list is almost endless.

Oil City Pickups' Overkill model crams a goodly dollop of RIC 4000 family clank into a long/bridge Jazz Bass sized format.

stickyfiddle

Chunky quarter sawn neck, traditional shape, split P pickup in the right place...? 

Sporky

Sounding like steel ball bearings rolling down a cast iron gutter. Djunga djunga. 

HilditchGuitars

@Funkfingers they were Fluence Soapbars. Someone else suggested the EMGs on my other thread, but I'm more swayed to Fishmans now (in terms of guitars at least) tbh. Going for 34" scale if that alters things?

@stickyfiddle trying a 1/4 sawn Beech neck on this one

@Sporky I'm trying to imagine that haha, when I get it I'll have it in the back of my mind the whole time I'm making it.

Sporky

I think the sound I mean is Stingray into Ampeg. 

Roland

I like the sound at 2:20 in this video. Components are mention elsewhere, including African Mahogany as 1:15.

https://youtu.be/Q1gZRka5KKk 

axisus

Incredibly subjective!

I like basses to be - easy to play, not too heavy, simple controls, active sounds, nice shape.

fretmeister

Sporky said:

Sounding like steel ball bearings tolling down a cast iron gutter. Djunga djunga. 

I believe @Lewy once used "...like angels fucking in a metal dustbin..." to describe a sound.

That was perfect!


(I don't care that he was probably talking about reso guitars!)

fretmeister

1: Balance. 
Balance is so important. There is zero reason to build a neck-divey pile of arse anymore. Even heavy instruments can be tolerable for most people if the balance is right. Balance on a long gig is very important.

2: Bridge placement.
This makes such a difference to comfort. Compare a P or J where the bridge is right against the bottom of the bass, and a Spector that has loads of room behind the bridge. That means for the same scale length the neck is sticking out maybe 4 or 5 inches further to the left and that can cause shoulder and wrist problems. The Spector approach is fine for finger players with the bass slung really low as the headstock is then higher up and at a nice angle. But for the waist or higher crown you need arms like Mr Tickle to reach the first fret.

3: Bridge loading
Bass players like to swap strings for different projects and as they are expensive we like to keep the old ones to put on again. Slot Load bridges that don't need the coiled silks to be fed back through a tiny hole (risk of breaking) are a wonderful invention. Hipshot and Sandberg do lovely examples. It makes the string swap process so much faster, and helps preserve the older strings in a useable state.

4: Pickups.
We all have our favourites. Can't go wrong with a P or a J or MM. 
The problems start with passive PJ sets. The J is usually very weak compared to the P and there's the insertion loss to consider. Insertion loss is part of the Jazz bass classic sound but on a PJ it just means the twin pickup sounds are a bit crap.

There's 2 solutions. On a passive PJ use a 3 way toggle to remove loading from extra vol or balance pots. Only 3 sounds that way, but they all work.

Or use an active balance control like the EMG ABC or ABCX to remove it. No dips or swells when moving between the pickups at all, just all the tone from each pickup, balanced properly.

P bass pickups on 5 strings are generally crap because of the position of the traditional P pickup. It makes that low B so damn flubby. Can be helped by reversing the orientation of the pickup so the bass side is nearer the bridge, but it's best to do that AND shift the entire thing back a little. So few companies do this, which is probably why the most successful 5 strings are either J types or use more modern pickup tech. Some are humbuckers but with both pickups moved back towards the bridge a little to keep that B nice and distinct.

5: Frets.
For the love of god, stop doing 20 fret only basses. Even 21 at least gives that top E to match the lowest note. That is actually more useful than it sounds. There's several Stevie Wonder tunes that need the entire range on a Fender. Can't do a key change without re-arranging, not even half a tone.

6: Do not get hung up on scale length.
I have been fortunate enough to own some very posh basses. Some companies will tell you that scale length is the most important part of a great sound. It's not. Quality of construction is far more important. I've had Dingwalls (Canadian ones) and other longer scale instruments and yet the very best, clearest, most pianolike B I'be ever had was a 34 scale Marleaux Consat Custom 5. Ok, that's a very expensive bass, but the B was amazing. I've had shortscales that sound better than 34 scale too. String choice is also very important. Several do not know how to make a good B string. Others do.

7: Onboard preamps.
If it's got more than 3 EQ knobs (maybe 4 if there's a freq knob) then you're doing it wrong. In the studio the outboard gear does whatever you need. Onstage you want it easy to adjust, not be at risk of changing the wrong thing under stage lights in-between strums. If the pickups allow it - always have an emergency passive switch to at least keep going in the event of battery death.

8: Tort.
Tort scratchplates ruin basses. They actually infect the bass with awfulness. It's the only 'plate type that does it. If you get a perfect bass, lovingly created by masters and then put on a tort plate it will suddenly be as awful as one of those old Marlin basses from the 80s. Just say no.

Funkfingers

PJ pickup pairs work better if the LJ is hotter than vintage spec.

I agree that the regular PJ pairing manages to combine all the worst aspects of both.

HilditchGuitars

@fretmeister that's a very concise and well written response, thanks for the input! And I fully agree on the tort plates, on any guitar haha. 
The balance was pretty good on the other one I made, I had a few comments off people, at the festival where I handed it over, about how nicely it would sit. And the Gotoh bridge I looked at looks like you can just hook the strings on. 
A note on frets - I always moan about making 24+ fret guitars due to the extra work yet I find myself defaulting to 24 every time as I just can't not put in the full octave range lol.

I'm going for 4 string 34" scale  again, and I'll keep reading your tips on pickups until it sinks in, that's a part I really need to get my head around more coming from a guitar background. 

HilditchGuitars

@axisus I know what makes a guitar easy to play, does the same sort of credentials cross over to bass as well?

axisus

HilditchGuitars said:

@axisus I know what makes a guitar easy to play, does the same sort of credentials cross over to bass as well?

I'm not really the person to ask! All I know is that some instruments just feel better than others, I'm not great at analysis. I made a bass a year or so ago, I've not yet got it feeling as good as I think it could be.