So ... anyone gone down the Eurorack rabbit hole?????

joeW

Hopefully someone will share some cautionary tales about how guitar players should never go near the dark and murky world of Eurorack modular.   I am currently not being put off by the almost impenetrable information well and it will induce huge GAS but has anyone found it to be musically a good use of time?  Would need to be more melodic than bleepy so am wondering if anyone has tried the route and whether it was a creative outlet or a vicious time / money pit to be avoided?

swiller

Done it with synths, not for guitar purposes.  I found it more scratching an itch than anything else. Certainly a gas money pit and time to get your head around it.

Further down the same rabbit hole is to build your own as its way cheaper and focusses you in on what you want not how marketing feeds your gas or whats on e bay etc. 

I find using all the existing options on things like minibrute , Se02 , putting audio signals through them, including guitars....and linking them up is just as satisfying. In the context of guitar, it just acts as a oscillator/audio source.

Sell on wise, its singles pretty much as rigs tend to be very personal things. 

A copy of NI reaktor is also a brilliant way of learning modular synthesis/fx in the box and loads of freebies, online stuff to keep anyone going for hundreds of years.

horse

I believe that @octatonic has a great rack

stevrossthepipe

I have @joeW !

Go very slowly and try and visualise your rack  and  use modular  grid to find out what you need  to do to expand upon your goal. I spent 2 - 3 years thinking about it first. It's OK to just want modules because they are  shiny  but to open this up you need lot of modulation and utility which takes thought and research. 

You are making a personal instrument that only exists for you.  If you think pinging 5 filters at the same time is a concept you are into do that or want an fm drone machine with effects then you can build that.  Or a field recorder with manipulation that has drum patterns that can be manipulated by random CV based on the recordings  you can. Making a poly synth is expensive and not ideal and making a fully featured drum machine would be so expensive and limited compared to a 500 quid hardware one. When mine is 'done' it  will have 2 filter banks in it sending cv to each other - chaos that then can be controlled via more utility costs for changing scenes if you will. Euroack demos are much harder to follow unless you already have/understand  euroack than say most guitar pedal demos. 

If you want a 'musical' instrument set up then get a poly synth that can do chords  and a midi drum machine  with a mono for bass and some external effects. Musically more trad and rewarding and  cheaper but still expansive. A premium loaded 7u with 1u can easily be 2 - 4 grand. It is also aimed at people that want to get completly away from DAWS but can be integrated in clever ways. If melody is the goal a keyboard would be much better for you. Alot of the hardware euro sequencers end up being like a computer anyway or are very esoteric and experimental that you have to go along with it and try not to wrangle to your wants. 

  Too many euroacks setups  end up being virtually identical overly stuffed with voices and the same 10 modules. But if  you  can afford to  spend a load of money and spend lots of time and want to learn on the way  just scrstch the itch and don't let the interest be stunted. It may spark interest in other areas you haven't thought of. Nothing needs to be permanent and if  you find making sounds interesting you won't be dissapointed. It will make you approach  synthesis in a different way but having a grasp of all the basic stuff before will make for a better expiernence and system. There is so many good affordable  semi modular synths out there and always easy to move on.  Shifting euroack gear is not as easy as pedals and synths arguably. 

I like making dystopia  driven harsh noise music with lots of random events  which would be impossible on trad synths. I also do just love all lights and  the towers of gear makes me feel good! 

joeW

@stevrossthepipe thanks for the very helpful feedback.  I currently have a Prophet 6 as my poly with a DSI tempest on the drums - Moog GM (the cause of my modular interest!) and a BassStation2 covering the bass parts all (theoretically) sequenced by an Octatrack.  So technically I should have most of the normal bases covered ... and yet those little patch cables keep calling me.  I guess the fun with modular comes with the almost countless permutations that come with a decent size rack - a module added to a big rack has exponentially more options than adding the same module to a starter rack.

I know the shiny, warm glow of a rack will get me gassing bad - and some of the sound scapes I hear are amazing.  Its mostly a time issue that concerns me -> I need to practise 1hr on guitar each day, do I have time to tweak (and tune) a eurorack???

And I don't have a cat.

stevrossthepipe

Ahhh wow @joeW ahh OK from your post I thought you were just jumping straight from guitar to euro.

Ha to caviate ha I don't know what I'm doing. Just lots of research and YouTube and helped me break down some of the chat in modwiggler.

I initially started with a grandmother and the moog three tier. I also up my intellijel with the input modules so I can play other synths straight in. 

Wow you already  have some fantastic stuff. 
I would suggest annetuatirs, switches, LFOs and a a 4x vca. You might want to mix out side the case as they take up alot room in the case also a voice that you don't have or just a load  of effects.In terms of time spent ha ya a bit of a pit but a good one. Ha I don't have your patience for practice the cables are calling mate! 

Just go for it  - I started with a 4u 104hp  ha filled up quick! Ha yes the bigger the better before you know it you've sold your non existent cat.

joeW

@stevrossthepipe I think I’m heading the exact same route as you - just a ways behind.  Damn those Moog semi mods - the gateway drug.

Do feel free to post any photos …

stylesforfree

Samplers. synths and drum machines is what I started out on long before I ever got into playing guitars.

I have been on quite a long syntheszier journey since around 2007....it all started with roland sp 808, then the novation xiosynth....

About 9-10 years ago I jumped into eurorack and started with a handful of Make Noise modules, I had no idea what I was getting into, I just knew I wanted to try it out as a friend had introduced me to it, I bought everything on finance and my first eurorack case was made out of carboard.

Fast forward to 2023 and I now have a 168HP, 9U doepfer case that is full. I have spent around £10,000 on it including the doepfer case.

Im now at a point where I barely use it as it's just so overwhelming, I think I need to refocus it and maybe break it down into a smaller system.

I think you should seriously reconsider getting into eurorack if you're not 100% dead certain about what you want from it otherwise you'll end up with an expensive paperweight/ornament that you might not use very much.

Having said that, it's probably some of the most fun gear you could ever purchase, it's just these days I have gone in a different direction with the kind of music I like to play and noodle around with/record.

I would definitely go 2nd hand, I have had some ridiculously cheap bargains over the years buying off reverb and ebay.

If I was to do it all again I would start with AMsynths and dreadbox modules as they offer the most bang for the pound.

Any questions at all just shoot me a PM.

octatonic

horse said:

I believe that @octatonic has a great rack

So yes it is a money pit, but you can do things that aren’t possible any other way.
I would think about that is it you want to do that hardware synths and/or guitar pedals do not cover.
If you can’t think of anything then don’t do it.

Obligatory pic:

https://i.imgur.com/9Fz6fnq.jpg

joeW

thanks for the input @stylesforfree and @octatonic (your mod rack is off the reservation btw).  It does seem like there is a something of a Catch 22 situation at the start of Eurorack in that you can't really know exactly what you want it do to as they are so difference in voice and workflow to anything else, but without a strong sense of purpose, its very easy to end up with something expensive that isn't terribly useful.  Am thinking of starting small like a 104hp Intellijel Pallett and focusing on extending the capability of my Grandmother.  I suspect if I went it too big too soon, id have a raft of modules that I wouldn't really know and never get to know properly due to information overload.  
Or I could try and play guitar better ... 

stylesforfree

If you wanted to buy a basic system now, you could go on eBay now and buy a few 2nd hand modules: VCO, VCF, VCA, LFO and a case for around £750.

I would start with the basics and keep it simple unless you wanted to start with a couple of more complex modules.

I always found that to utilise more feature dense modules, I needed more modules to feed it to and things got too complex and out of hand relatively quickly. 

joeW

stylesforfree said:

I always found that to utilise more feature dense modules, I needed more modules to feed it to and things got too complex and out of hand relatively quickly. 

That's the essence of modular I guess - a module's use can be greatly enhanced or limited by the rest of the set up.  I plan to avoid complex modules or anything with too much menu diving for now - else I could just use plugins

octatonic

joeW said:

thanks for the input @stylesforfree and @octatonic (your mod rack is off the reservation btw).  It does seem like there is a something of a Catch 22 situation at the start of Eurorack in that you can't really know exactly what you want it do to as they are so difference in voice and workflow to anything else, but without a strong sense of purpose, its very easy to end up with something expensive that isn't terribly useful.  Am thinking of starting small like a 104hp Intellijel Pallett and focusing on extending the capability of my Grandmother.  I suspect if I went it too big too soon, id have a raft of modules that I wouldn't really know and never get to know properly due to information overload.  
Or I could try and play guitar better ... 

That is a good assessment.
I started with this system back in August 2018.
 


The idea was to build a Minimoog cheaper than buying an original or a reissue.
I would have saved myself about £30k if I'd just bought the Minimoog and never ventured into modular.

But it isn't about the money and perhaps it is a hard thing to communicate in words but there is an approach with modular that surpasses any other mode of operation.

It is hands-on but it is also 'brain in'.
I achieve a flow state working with my modular systems (the picture is only one of the modular systems I have- although it is the largest) far easier than I do working with fixed architecture hardware synths or in a DAW with soft synths.

This might sound pretentious but you have to be open to indeterminacy as a compositional process when using a modular.
Precisely recreating patches it very time consuming and sometimes impossible.
There are so many possibilities and the position of a single potentiometer or a single patch can drastically change the patch. 
 
So creating a patch with the mindset of it being a 'one off', never to be heard again is quite freeing (as long as you record the bloody thing).

In terms of 'too big too soon'- how knowledgeable are you about synthesis?
I don't mean 'how many synths have you used?'
If I stuck you in front of a synthesiser (either software or hardware) and said 'create a subtractive monophonic moog-style bass', could you do it?
What about a pad?
Or a brass sound?
Or a snare?

Do you know what a VCA does?
Or an LFO?
How about an envelope?

If you don't know the difference on a technical level between all of those sounds then one you get to modular it will be like sitting in front of a typewriter, randomly bashing at the keys and then presenting 'your creation'.
Is it original?
Sure.
Does it mean anything? Well... that is up for debate.

Before I get people piling in objecting to this firstly it is an opinion, not a fact, and secondly I am not saying 'don't do it'.
It is just that getting from nothing to something in modular is more time consuming than any other way even when you know synthesis pretty well. It is really easy to go from nothing to nothing as well. I mean- if you can't create a basic subtractive synth patch then when you sit in front of a modular and nothing is patched... how do you make it go?

You can learn synthesis by starting with modular and it does suit some people to do so.
It is just a long road.

Many people making EDM/Techno/House don't really know this stuff.
They aren't creating original sounds- they use soft synths and go preset shopping.
I'm also not objecting to them doing that- the tools allow you to do it.

The analogy I use is we are all trying to build a house.
Fixed architecture synths and soft synths are different flavours of 'buying the bricks'.
You buy the bricks, then you start to stack them and eventually you have a house.

Modular is *making the bricks*... one by one.
You make a brick, exactly as you want it and you set it aside.
You make another one.
And another.
etc.

My advice- get VCV rack.
There is a free version or you can buy it for not very much money.
Work with that for a month or so.
If it clicks then build yourself a simple system out of Doepfer modules.
Don't be seduced by fancy faceplates and internet reviews/youtube videos.

Definitely buy used- loads of people get into modular, spend loads of money and then bail.
Why?
Because it is difficult and frustrating if you don't know what you are doing.

octatonic

One more thing.
Some of my most favourite modules are things I bought on a whim.

Music Thing Modular Turing Machine.
Ornament and Crime.
Endorphines Godspeed.
Mutable Instruments Rings.
Mutable Instruments Clouds.
Make Noise Maths.
ADDAC Stochastic Function Generator.

I didn't have much of an idea about what they did before I bought them other than a brief website description but I love them all and they are central to what I do.

You figure it out by doing it and you choose your aesthetic.
Also worth noting that I have 3 or 4 of all of those modules now too.

Whereas other highly regarded modules (say Piston Honda III, Rainmaker, Rene 2, Mutable Plaits) are less interesting to me.

You won't know what works for you until you dive in and that is where it can get expensive.
Esp for me because even if I don't use a module a lot I don't sell it.
I always eventually find a use for them.

joeW

@octatonic - thanks for your sage and informed perspective - I will give VCV Rack a go.  If I can't persist with that then perhaps I am being led by the 'new shiny toy'.  At heart am a bit of a maths geek, so things that make noise, flash and have names with Turing machine and stochastic function are likely to get the better of any anti GAS rational thinking.  

stylesforfree

joeW said:

stylesforfree said:

I always found that to utilise more feature dense modules, I needed more modules to feed it to and things got too complex and out of hand relatively quickly. 

That's the essence of modular I guess - a module's use can be greatly enhanced or limited by the rest of the set up.  I plan to avoid complex modules or anything with too much menu diving for now - else I could just use plugins

I would definitely start with a VCO, VCF, VCA etc...the bread and butter building blocks along with an LFO or modulation source and a simple 8 step sequencer, you'll have hours and hours of fun patching a basic system that upon learning about the different ways you can patch it, will reveal itself to be not-so-basic.

I think it might be helpful to look at videos on youtube that are focused on smaller systems. It will probably only exacerbate the GAS, but it may give you some guidance and an idea on what a few modules can do.

Here's a few example videos:

Tiny Synth - Modular Patching With A Small System - YouTube

3 voices in 62HP including a Mimeophon? SO much potential! - YouTube

An Ordinary Day Full of Imperfections

Mutable Instruments Palette System - YouTube

Planning Your First Eurorack Synthesizer with Sarah Belle Reid - YouTube

Keep posting any questions and thoughts you have!

blobb

You can (pretty much) do all of this in Beebo.