Caught in a loop?

robgilmo

For years Ive just been jamming , not playing songs, just playing impro, I seem to be in a rut, I seem to have forgotten more than I know, any ideas how to get out? Or progress with what I have?

MVI 9779 - YouTube

Cranky

Sounds nice enough.  Turn it all into some songs?

Dabble in bass, piano, mandolin, something else?

blobb

Trio + (and I'm losing count of how many times this is my view on this type of situation). Thing is, for me, I want independence of thought. Something I figured out after playing drums. There, you want independent limbs. When you eventually get close you can do one thing while another thing is happening. I use Trio in a similar way, I'm not trying to play a song. So.. set up a progression of some sort and play over the top. Play anything. Really. Eventually you start to play things that 'fit' but are not necessarily exactly what the rule book says you should play. Next, you develop independence. That drummer is going nowhere - he wil play his thing regardless of your 'mistakes' 

While you are doing this your brain is learning and your muscles are memorising. Ohh that sounded bad, wow that sounded good etc... Before you know it, you can feel, move, and play whatever you want. This way you stop thinking about rules and start thinking about music.

Then start another session. This time make the loop something good, a nice feel or groove. Play over it. You won't be in the rut, you will just generate really nice melodic music.

On another thread talking about alternate tunings, I commented about randomising and then forgetting which tuning was in operation. I'm extending the idea of using independence to promote muscle memory and natural musical ideas, detaching the music from the technical side. Now, I'm not one for the mathmatics of music. I know it is there ands I know it can help understand what's going on. You don't have to throw that away. This is a matter of figuring out a way to keep developing the creative side, which is where we get stuck in the guitar rut.

I used to stop playing when I got in a rut. Come back later, listen to music intensly for the interim. You can do that, but in a way it's the same thing as using a Trio to do it with an instrument in your hands.

When you have done all that for a bit, come back to where you are now - a guitar, an amp, a spare half hour - things will be completely different.

To me, Trio is the best development aid for guitar players like us (maybe not Julian Breem students!) and we should all be using tools like these to progress.

robgilmo

Thanks guys, I might blow the dust off my RC-3 and have a play with that, I feel like I need something else though, everythging I play is boxy, predictable, I want to be able to throw a bum note in there and make it soud like its got a place, you know when you are listening to music and suddenly the guitar goes all Art Blakey then recovers into the song again? well , that, I'm a fan of hard bop Jazz but I just cant play it on guitar and if I could it would only be to put a quick riff in to throw things around a little. Tghink Sonny Clark just for a little riff then back into the regular song, there is nothing boxy or predictible about this but it all sound like a whole? you know?

Sonny Clark - Voodoo - YouTube

roberty

Lessons? I took lessons for many years in my 30s, in a few spurts. Thinking of doing it again now

Other than that, theory, and learning songs from outside of your genre and/or comfort zone (a good instructor will probably do this)

octatonic

robgilmo said:

For years Ive just been jamming , not playing songs, just playing impro, I seem to be in a rut, I seem to have forgotten more than I know, any ideas how to get out? Or progress with what I have?

MVI 9779 - YouTube

TRANSCRIPTION!

You are in the period where you have enough ability on the guitar to dick around meaninglessly forever.
This is a real trap.
Pat Metheny talks about the rut guitarists often get into about 5 years into their playing.It is exactly what you describe.
We have all been through it (or will go through it).

Learn songs and solos.
Write songs and solos.

Be structured in your approach.
If you can't do this then find a teacher or a buddy and work on it.

Roland

octatonic said:

Learn songs and solos.
Write songs and solos.

Be structured in your approach.
If you can't do this then find a teacher or a buddy and work on it.

Joining a band will help with these

robgilmo

Thanks guys, I think lessons is the key, I am struggling with motivation and I think being bored with it has created a circle that I need to break, perhaps learning new songs will break this cycle and drive my motivation forward , thanks again guys , greatly appreciated.

robgilmo

Roland said:

octatonic said:

Learn songs and solos.
Write songs and solos.

Be structured in your approach.
If you can't do this then find a teacher or a buddy and work on it.

Joining a band will help with these

It might , however if I lack motivation I might end up letting people down who rely on me, that could though be an end goal and give me something to work towards, cheers buddy.

hollywoodrox

Well you’ve made a smashing video ,love the cozy setting & lighting  it’s very nicely presented
  like someone earlier sad perhaps these melodic musings can be the seeds of some songs 

PAL

It's easy to just noodle around we all do it ! We play what we know we can play. I started to teach guitar over ten
 years ago and what I did was I did not do TAB I did teach theory and what I knew my thoughts on this was that the 
 people I taught liked what I did as a guitarist and I just show them what I had learned this meant showing them stuff that  they had no interest in but once they go into it and what it could give them they enjoyed it.
 Also I discovered when teaching you are always going to get asked how a particular guitar song or solo is played
and although some of these requests were things I had no interest in I would learn them so it was a bit carrot 
and stick. I think EVH was great but it was just something that was not my style of playing but I could work out
what was going on and explain it to someone. So although I was teaching I was learning other stuff I wouldn't
choose to play. The reason I'm explaining this is you will learn more by trying other types of music and it
will all help in the way you play and what you want to do. As I have said when we pick up a guitar we do what
we know we can do but it helps to try and do something beyond what we can do.
I am often asked about what guitar players I like and I explain I like to watch the USA session guitarists especially
the modern country players and that's what I like to try and play myself. So I would say set yourself a target to
learn something you wouldn't normally play stretch yourself musically and you will find it breath new life into
your playing. Good luck.

Littlejonny

robgilmo said:

Thanks guys, I might blow the dust off my RC-3 and have a play with that, I feel like I need something else though, everythging I play is boxy, predictable, I want to be able to throw a bum note in there and make it soud like its got a place, you know when you are listening to music and suddenly the guitar goes all Art Blakey then recovers into the song again? well , that, I'm a fan of hard bop Jazz but I just cant play it on guitar and if I could it would only be to put a quick riff in to throw things around a little. Tghink Sonny Clark just for a little riff then back into the regular song, there is nothing boxy or predictible about this but it all sound like a whole? you know?

Sonny Clark - Voodoo - YouTube

This is a great thing to aim for - I suggest getting some bebop licks down as well as some ‘outside’ licks and concepts. I like to do chromatic enclosures here and there - when you find good ones, practice putting them in on certain chord tones. Eg. b7,5,6,b6,5