Livin on a Prayer & Beat It - how close to originals?

stratman3142

stickyfiddle said:

@digitalscream That was ace! Maybe not literally perfect but you still get all the points for the twiddly bits...  

Yes definitely the right vibe, which is the main thing for me.

newi123

I`ve found a phase 90 set to about 1 o`clock gives a nice feel to LOAP as I`ve haven`t had a wah pedal in front of me for about 25 yrs. 

The key change is a killer for the singer - various amounts of pointing the mic at the audience from gig to gig depending on how he`s coping! :-) and we`re in Eb, so 1/2 a step down from the original. 

stickyfiddle

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

digitalscream

stickyfiddle said:

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

Well, just for the opposite perspective...if you do play Beat It, then my experience is that the only thing most audiences are listening for is a suitably high-energy solo. It doesn't have to be right (as noted earlier, and even if you have a few guitarists in the crowd they probably won't spot it if you have a few simplifications), but you also can't fuck it up either.

Basically, if you can't find something to play that isn't on the very edge of your ability to get it right and still fits...you'll save yourself a lot of nerves if you just choose another song for now. As it was, I was sweating bullets when we played it (and mostly hid behind the PA column, just in case).

roberty

Seriously impressive chops @digitalscream. It sounded musical and the playing is clean. Was close enough to the original to my ears

stickyfiddle

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

Well, just for the opposite perspective...if you do play Beat It, then my experience is that the only thing most audiences are listening for is a suitably high-energy solo. It doesn't have to be right (as noted earlier, and even if you have a few guitarists in the crowd they probably won't spot it if you have a few simplifications), but you also can't fuck it up either.

Basically, if you can't find something to play that isn't on the very edge of your ability to get it right and still fits...you'll save yourself a lot of nerves if you just choose another song for now. As it was, I was sweating bullets when we played it (and mostly hid behind the PA column, just in case).

That's basically my plan for the next couple of weeks - work out where I can get to that has the right vibe while also being able to play it effortlessly and looking like a bit of a show-off. I can definitely work something up that manages that, it's just a question of whether it'll be flashy enough that I want to go and do it in public  

I'll update as I go but I know our lead singer is dying to play it (as am I..), and it sounded great the one time we jammed through it and I didn't bother with the solo... 

digitalscream

stickyfiddle said:

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

Well, just for the opposite perspective...if you do play Beat It, then my experience is that the only thing most audiences are listening for is a suitably high-energy solo. It doesn't have to be right (as noted earlier, and even if you have a few guitarists in the crowd they probably won't spot it if you have a few simplifications), but you also can't fuck it up either.

Basically, if you can't find something to play that isn't on the very edge of your ability to get it right and still fits...you'll save yourself a lot of nerves if you just choose another song for now. As it was, I was sweating bullets when we played it (and mostly hid behind the PA column, just in case).

That's basically my plan for the next couple of weeks - work out where I can get to that has the right vibe while also being able to play it effortlessly and looking like a bit of a show-off. I can definitely work something up that manages that, it's just a question of whether it'll be flashy enough that I want to go and do it in public  

I'll update as I go but I know our lead singer is dying to play it, and it sounded great the one time we jammed through it and I didn't bother with the solo... 

OK, the way I break these things down is in terms of effort and target notes. So this one would be...

Slow <tapped harmonics> - Fast <pause> - Fast - Slow - Slow <bends> - Slow - Fast - Fast <bend to exit>

So hit all the harmonics and the right notes at the end of each phrase, and you're pretty much golden as long as you stay in key.

roberty said:

Seriously impressive chops @digitalscream. It sounded musical and the playing is clean. Was close enough to the original to my ears

You're gonna make me blush in a minute

EricTheWeary

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

Well, just for the opposite perspective...if you do play Beat It, then my experience is that the only thing most audiences are listening for is a suitably high-energy solo. It doesn't have to be right (as noted earlier, and even if you have a few guitarists in the crowd they probably won't spot it if you have a few simplifications), but you also can't fuck it up either.

Basically, if you can't find something to play that isn't on the very edge of your ability to get it right and still fits...you'll save yourself a lot of nerves if you just choose another song for now. As it was, I was sweating bullets when we played it (and mostly hid behind the PA column, just in case).

The story is that EVH played the solo and asked Michael Jackson what he thought of it and he said 'I love the high bits.' Years later EVH met Slash and asked him what he thought of working with MJ and  he replied 'well Michael said he loved the high bits.' 

So, needs high bits.

Sporky

Could you do a lounge-jazz breakdown in place of the solo? 

vasselmeyer

On the point of "Livin' on a Prayer", most modern multi FX can do a really good approximation. Here's one from the Boss GT-1000 which I have nabbed and used in a couple of songs in our set.

stickyfiddle

@Vasselmeyer Ta - I'll look into the HX Stomp's talk box options. Not super keen to add that plus an exp to my gigging board though - I'm meant to be the bassist! 

DefaultM

EricTheWeary said:

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

Well, just for the opposite perspective...if you do play Beat It, then my experience is that the only thing most audiences are listening for is a suitably high-energy solo. It doesn't have to be right (as noted earlier, and even if you have a few guitarists in the crowd they probably won't spot it if you have a few simplifications), but you also can't fuck it up either.

Basically, if you can't find something to play that isn't on the very edge of your ability to get it right and still fits...you'll save yourself a lot of nerves if you just choose another song for now. As it was, I was sweating bullets when we played it (and mostly hid behind the PA column, just in case).

The story is that EVH played the solo and asked Michael Jackson what he thought of it and he said 'I love the high bits.' Years later EVH met Slash and asked him what he thought of working with MJ and  he replied 'well Michael said he loved the high bits.' 

So, needs high bits.

There's a bit in This Is It where he's telling Orianthi he wants to hear her highest note as well.

EricTheWeary

DefaultM said:

EricTheWeary said:

digitalscream said:

stickyfiddle said:

Honestly for the setlist I'm looking at (max 25 mins for this gig at least) we'm actually looking at going to D standard for the last 3 songs, and capo up as required for the opening numbers. May be worth a try, but just getting some songs agreed in the first place is the main priority for now

Well, just for the opposite perspective...if you do play Beat It, then my experience is that the only thing most audiences are listening for is a suitably high-energy solo. It doesn't have to be right (as noted earlier, and even if you have a few guitarists in the crowd they probably won't spot it if you have a few simplifications), but you also can't fuck it up either.

Basically, if you can't find something to play that isn't on the very edge of your ability to get it right and still fits...you'll save yourself a lot of nerves if you just choose another song for now. As it was, I was sweating bullets when we played it (and mostly hid behind the PA column, just in case).

The story is that EVH played the solo and asked Michael Jackson what he thought of it and he said 'I love the high bits.' Years later EVH met Slash and asked him what he thought of working with MJ and  he replied 'well Michael said he loved the high bits.' 

So, needs high bits.

There's a bit in This Is It where he's telling Orianthi he wants to hear her highest note as well.

There’s a reasonable chance I might have Orianthi mixed up with Slash although I didn’t think so. But either way just very high notes seem to be all that’s required. 

digitalscream

EricTheWeary said:

There’s a reasonable chance I might have Orianthi mixed up with Slash although I didn’t think so. But either way just very high notes seem to be all that’s required. 

ICBM

stratman3142 said:

I still remember one gig where the band leader announced: "...and now with the Eddie Van Halen solo...".
Then the brass section parted and turned around to look at me. And there's this guy in the audience who ran to the front of the stage, folded his arms, and stared at me

At that point you just play a completely different solo with as much tapping as you can possibly fit into it .

viz

Here’s an old one of us doing LOAP - not as good as Danny’s!

https://youtu.be/oM4oBOupnZs?feature=shared

stickyfiddle

@viz nicely done! 

PolarityMan

You could sample it?

stickyfiddle

PolarityMan said:

You could sample it?

Yeah but that’s cheating. 

Our other guitarist suggested using samples for something not particularly the other day and I almost fired him on the spot..! 

Sporky

I wouldn't know if you got either right or not. I very much doubt most of the audience would either.

And anyone who could remember if note-for-note will object that your guitar strap is the wtong length even if you nail it.