Humidity and guitars (again)

thermionic

I lost my little hygrometer when I moved house a few years ago, and didn’t get round to replacing it because my new house was so much nicer it didn’t occur to me that it could have as damp an atmosphere as the old one. I wanted to rule out humidity as a contributing factor to the high action suffered by my Taylor GS Mini which is on a stand in the living room, so ordered one from amazon. It’s not good news.

https://i.imgur.com/qGyCdmn.jpg

It’s the time of year when it’s probably rained in the last 24 hrs and I only have the heating on for a couple of hours once every 3 days, so I didn’t expect it to be lower than 60%. Not sure what I can do, except wait for the colder weather when the heating is on for longer.

razorbill

You could get a dehumidifier. I rent and therefore have very limited control over where I live. It’s an old property and sealed pretty poorly. 

I have a Meaco arete 20l running practically 24/7 to maintain 50% RH at 18-20c and have to empty it once a day, thinking about getting a second.

It’s expensive upfront and uses electricity (a benefit is it slightly heats the air as a byproduct of dehumidifying), but it works 

fishfingers

I'd be tempted to get some professional advice if that reading is accurate and consistent throughout the house.  I think a dehumidifier is probably a good idea, at least in the short term

chickenbonejohn

That is rather high humidity for a house, I'd be more worried about the property than the guitar. What sort of property is it, what sort of heating have you got? Things like drying clothes, poorly ventilated bathroom/shower or kitchen can really badly affect the whole house in terms of humidity. A dehumidifier should only be a last resort, its best to try and tackle the root cause. Things like poorly sealed windows can be a good thing in terms of humidity, as it helps to ventilate the property and get rid of a build up of damp air. A draughty house may cost more to heat, but it helps get rid of damp air.

drofluf

Have you checked the calibration of the hygrometer? I have 2 and there can be a 10% difference between the two. 

This https://www.holts.com/clubhouse/cigar-101/calibrate-hygrometer is aimed a cigar enthusiasts but explains the process simply. 

And if all else fails you can smoke the guitar

thermionic

I am going to keep an eye on it, especially as it's set to get colder over the weekend and I will probably turn the heating on. Hopefully it will go down a bit. I will also move it around to a couple of other rooms.

I think high humidity is quite common in terraced houses built at the start of the 20th century. The only real damp problem is on a wall above a disused fireplace, but that's at the far end of the house. I should open windows more often (but maybe not when it's been raining like the last couple of days).

I don't think it's possible to calibrate the hygrometer, but my choice of model was influenced by an amazon review where somebody had bought 2 and the readings were within 1% of each other. Of course that doesn't say anything about mine, but I think they are reasonably accurate.

drofluf

@thermionic you probably won't be able to calibrate but test I linked to will then show how far out it is. So if you do the test and it says 85% then a reasonable assumption would be that if the meter reads 70% the RH is actually around 60%.

JAYJO

razorbill said:

You could get a dehumidifier. I rent and therefore have very limited control over where I live. It’s an old property and sealed pretty poorly. 

I have a Meaco arete 20l running practically 24/7 to maintain 50% RH at 18-20c and have to empty it once a day, thinking about getting a second.

It’s expensive upfront and uses electricity (a benefit is it slightly heats the air as a byproduct of dehumidifying), but it works 

We use 2 .  1 upstairs and 1 downstairs. They're on casters and easily moved.
Downstairs one goes in downstairs shower room in winter (which is a small space) and drys out washing on the Maiden. Upstairs moves from bedroom to landing when needed etc.
The house has poor ventillation. I made sure of it. stuffed the chimneys to stop the draft etc but unfortunately the french doors and windows have no vents.
Too cold to leave windows open so would rather pay for the dehumidifier than let the heat out. They do make the home feel much more pleasant in winter and as you say the little bit of warm air is welcome also.
I think you may need to be careful where musical instruments are concerned,i'm not 100% but i think a Dehumidifier may potentially dry out some wood. not sure tbh.

razorbill

JAYJO said:

razorbill said:

You could get a dehumidifier. I rent and therefore have very limited control over where I live. It’s an old property and sealed pretty poorly. 

I have a Meaco arete 20l running practically 24/7 to maintain 50% RH at 18-20c and have to empty it once a day, thinking about getting a second.

It’s expensive upfront and uses electricity (a benefit is it slightly heats the air as a byproduct of dehumidifying), but it works 

We use 2 .  1 upstairs and 1 downstairs. They're on casters and easily moved.
Downstairs one goes in downstairs shower room in winter (which is a small space) and drys out washing on the Maiden. Upstairs moves from bedroom to landing when needed etc.
The house has poor ventillation. I made sure of it. stuffed the chimneys to stop the draft etc but unfortunately the french doors and windows have no vents.
Too cold to leave windows open so would rather pay for the dehumidifier than let the heat out. They do make the home feel much more pleasant in winter and as you say the little bit of warm air is welcome also.
I think you may need to be careful where musical instruments are concerned,i'm not 100% but i think a Dehumidifier may potentially dry out some wood. not sure tbh.

My humidifier has a hygrometer on-board so will just stop running when it gets to the desired humidity level. I don't think there would be any issues unless you hang a guitar directly above the fan (I keep my guitars in cases). It lowers the humidity level in the room to the ideal range for storing guitars, so I can't see how it could be harmful. 

They really are a lifesaver in this climate when you aren't in a position fix the underlying causes (try getting a landlord to fix damp coming in through the brickwork haha)

chickenbonejohn

Drying clothes in the house is pretty much the worst thing you can do to, it puts gallons of moisture into the air. In traditionally built houses, coal fires constantly pulled fresh air though the house...old houses can be quite cold and draughty, but not inevitably damp.  Modern windows and closing up fireplaces and chimneys are a great way of making a perfectly good house a damp one. The main cause of moisture is....people. Breathing pumps out loads of moisture, and cooking adds to this. A lot of people attribute damp houses to moisture coming through the fabric of the building, but if the place isn't heated and ventilated properly, you get what is known as interstitial condensation....warm moist air inside the house reaches the "dew point" as it gets colder and condenses within the brickwork and other parts of the building structure..and the moisture condenses in the fabric and the whole place goes through a constant circle of worsening damp. Most of this moisture comes from the residents and their activities rather than up from the ground or through the walls and roof. Also, humidity will percolate right the way though the internal fabric of a house - if one room is damp it will inevitably cause the whole property to become humid.

thermionic

Lots of good info and interesting points here. I generally keep any drying clothes away from any rooms where there are any guitars. Closed up fireplaces/chimneys are probably a big factor here - two unused fireplaces in the living room (with another in the dining room and three upstairs!) There’s only me here most of the time but I’ll try breathing out less

sev112

My dehumidifier costs 20p an hour according to the smart meter.  It goes on for ever clothes wash.  It also heats the upstairs rooms as a result ! Which is cheaper than the radiators.

70s are onky a problem is they are continually at that level.  You should be able to get down to low 60s at this time of year bu opening windows and doors , although it has been a bit weird and high these past 2 week's.  

thermionic

I’ve ordered a couple of these cushions for the lounge, should help a bit.

https://i.imgur.com/Z2W5v5y.jpg

chickenbonejohn

thermionic said:

Lots of good info and interesting points here. I generally keep any drying clothes away from any rooms where there are any guitars. Closed up fireplaces/chimneys are probably a big factor here - two unused fireplaces in the living room (with another in the dining room and three upstairs!) There’s only me here most of the time but I’ll try breathing out less

The moisture generated in one room will migrate right the way through the property - walls, brick, plasterboard &  timber are all vapour permeable, so the whole place will eventually get damp, there's no way around it, save for creating a 100% hermetically sealed vapour-proof chamber.

sev112

I also find upstairs gets everything from downstairs, ie cooking moisture and heat.  My “scientific experiments” a couple of years back when I started having this problem in our 2003 house, showe me that the kitchen, the spare bedroom with the drying rack next to the radiator and the small en-suite were the culprits, coupled with having the double glazed windows closed fully and not even realising we had trickle vents, and most of them were closed to keep the spiders out !

we bought a dehumidifier and started a training and education programme for my wife nd teenage daughter which involved opening windows while showering and after, and using the “window vac” on the shower tiled walls and door immediately after - it’s quite amazing how much that little thing improves things in the en-suite.  

All washing drying in the house has the dehumidifier going, and it dries really quickly.  

This time of year seems to be worst in south east Uk.  temps are still warmish but a lot of moisture in the air.  winter spring and summer are usually fine.

thomasross20

Mine varies from 45 to 65 though never had it affect a guitar. I've dehumidifier and humidifier and being Scottish I try not to put the heating on... I was considering a quilted back for a new guitar and I understand from good input on here that backs are less likely to crack than tops but knowing the swings I get, I am more inclined to go for more stable non-quilted wood. 

chickenbonejohn

I'm amazed at how many people still dry clothes indoors...and then buy a humidifier to sort out the damp problem which it causes. Cut out the middleman, get a tumble dryer and vent it out properly. When I was an architect I often came across this problem, and always advised people to install a tumble dryer. Yes, it's a relatively expensive item and costs money to run, but this more than outweighs the alternative of living in a damp house and the damage that this causes to the fabric of the house and its contents..not to mention the potential health hazards of mould and fungal spores.

crunchman

If the alternative is running a dehumidifier a lot of the time, then a tumble dryer probably makes sense.  The newer heat pump ones use a lot less energy than the old type as well.

If the dehumidifer is costing 20p an hour to run, then an hour or two of a modern tumble dryer probably won't cost any more to run than the dehumidifier.  It's also a lot more convenient than draping washing everywhere.

Lestratcaster

I've also got the Meaco dehumidifier. I'm shocked at how much water it picks up in a day, my converted garage doesn't have the best ventilation and I run it to keep the RH to 50%. The house can get over 60 sometimes esp in the past few days when its been pissing down relentlessly. But we've just had new windows done and the air flow is a lot better so not too much of an issue. I have a smaller Blyss one in the bathroom which does a good job of taking down the RH to 55% after a shower.

sev112

Tumble dryer doesn’t dehumidify the cooking moisture and all the stuff we breathe out though

thermionic

Now I want to buy a tumble dryer... and I could have spent that money on a guitar!

I'm becoming more convinced now that my GS Mini may not need a neck reset (shim swap), but the high action is due to bellying of the top. I went through all this with my 310 years ago (obsessively monitoring humidity, keeping it in its case at all times with loads of silica gel packs etc). The GS Mini has been on a stand in the living room for a few years because it's a relatively inexpensive guitar with laminate back and sides. May have to rethink that.

Anyway, I found this thread to be quite informative:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=463489