Fingerstyle Chords

guitarjack66

I am playing a lot more fingerstyle of late now that I own a Parlour and Concert sized guitars. I sometimes play using all available fingers and assigning my thumb to the 6,5 or 4 string. I also like to use my thumb and index finger too as it feels a bit less complicated and easier. My question is 'If I play a chord where I fret three or four strings with my left hand which two strings should I fret with my thumb and index finger and why?'

This probably could have gone in the technique section but I'd like to understand any theory behind it too.

sev112

It probably depends what chord you played before and which chord you’re going to be playing after 

sev112

For example a G major chord in root position I play the same frets with different fingers (thumbs) depending on where I’m going next and where I am from

JonnyBgoode

guitarjack66 said:

My question is 'If I play a chord where I fret three or four strings with my left hand which two strings should I fret with my thumb and index finger and why?'

This probably could have gone in the technique section but I'd like to understand any theory behind it too.

If you using your fretting hand thumb its going to be limited to what you can actually reach - usually the 5th and/or 6th string - but this depends on a whole bunch of things like how complex the chord is, what your other fingers are doing, how narrow the neck is, how flexible your fingers are etc, as well as the point above (what you play before and after)

So there are no set rules, it depends entirely on the context. If you have a bar of music in mind, post it and I could suggest a fingering with the rationale. It might work for me, it might not for you.

[I am assuming that you did actually mean to say which strings should you *fret*, rather than which strings should you pluck. i.e this is a fretting hand question not a plucking hand question]

guitarjack66

JonnyBgoode said:

guitarjack66 said:

My question is 'If I play a chord where I fret three or four strings with my left hand which two strings should I fret with my thumb and index finger and why?'

This probably could have gone in the technique section but I'd like to understand any theory behind it too.

If you using your fretting hand thumb its going to be limited to what you can actually reach - usually the 5th and/or 6th string - but this depends on a whole bunch of things like how complex the chord is, what your other fingers are doing, how narrow the neck is, how flexible your fingers are etc, as well as the point above (what you play before and after)

So there are no set rules, it depends entirely on the context. If you have a bar of music in mind, post it and I could suggest a fingering with the rationale. It might work for me, it might not for you.

[I am assuming that you did actually mean to say which strings should you *fret*, rather than which strings should you pluck. i.e this is a fretting hand question not a plucking hand question]

No,I did mean pluck as in which notes to concentrate my two fingers(well thumb and forefinger actually.) I'd love to post diagrams and stuff but I find this forum pretty prehistoric in comparison to others I use. 

Roland

guitarjack66 said:

No,I did mean pluck as in which notes to concentrate my two fingers(well thumb and forefinger actually. 

JonnyBgoode said:

So there are no set rules, it depends entirely on the context.

Same answer applies to plucking: it depends on context. If you’re limiting yourself to two or three notes then the focus should be on which of the notes in the chord the music calls for. As an extreme example, comping along with root, fifth and octave will be very different choice to playing a walking bass line with melody over the top.

guitarjack66 said:

I'd love to post diagrams and stuff but I find this forum pretty prehistoric in comparison to others I use. 

?

guitarjack66

Roland said:

guitarjack66 said:

No,I did mean pluck as in which notes to concentrate my two fingers(well thumb and forefinger actually. 

JonnyBgoode said:

So there are no set rules, it depends entirely on the context.

Same answer applies to plucking: it depends on context. If you’re limiting yourself to two or three notes then the focus should be on which of the notes in the chord the music calls for. As an extreme example, comping along with root, fifth and octave will be very different choice to playing a walking bass line with melody over the top.

guitarjack66 said:

I'd love to post diagrams and stuff but I find this forum pretty prehistoric in comparison to others I use. 

?

Very difficult,nigh impossible to upload videos and such for me.

digitalkettle

I think the OP was a bit confusing.

Probably need an example referencing (YT link, sketchy bit of tab, etc).

JonnyBgoode

guitarjack66 said:

JonnyBgoode said:

[I am assuming that you did actually mean to say which strings should you *fret*, rather than which strings should you pluck. i.e this is a fretting hand question not a plucking hand question]

No,I did mean pluck as in which notes to concentrate my two fingers(well thumb and forefinger actually.) I'd love to post diagrams and stuff but I find this forum pretty prehistoric in comparison to others I use. 

Ok, well I'm still unclear whether your question is one about musical/harmony choices or simply a physical 'which strings do I pluck with these fingers?' 

I'm guessing its  the latter, given you said at the start that the post should have been in technique rather than theory section, in which case the thumb on the plucking hand will take the lower note (nearest the 6th string) and the index finger the next higher string and so on for your middle and ring if you were using them.  Why?  because that's the way our fingers naturally lie over the strings, it would be very unusual and awkward for your index finger to be plucking a string below the one that your thumb is plucking, for example (but both may be used on the same string eg harmonics)

Does that help, or have I misinterpreted your question?

digitalkettle

JonnyBgoode said:

guitarjack66 said:

JonnyBgoode said:

[I am assuming that you did actually mean to say which strings should you *fret*, rather than which strings should you pluck. i.e this is a fretting hand question not a plucking hand question]

No,I did mean pluck as in which notes to concentrate my two fingers(well thumb and forefinger actually.) I'd love to post diagrams and stuff but I find this forum pretty prehistoric in comparison to others I use. 

Ok, well I'm still unclear whether your question is one about musical/harmony choices or simply a physical 'which strings do I pluck with these fingers?' 

I'm guessing its  the latter, given you said at the start that the post should have been in technique rather than theory section, in which case the thumb on the plucking hand will take the lower note (nearest the 6th string) and the index finger the next higher string and so on for your middle and ring if you were using them.  Why?  because that's the way our fingers naturally lie over the strings, it would be very unusual and awkward for your index finger to be plucking a string below the one that your thumb is plucking, for example (but both may be used on the same string eg harmonics)

Does that help, or have I misinterpreted your question?

What about a simple ascending arpeggiation of C major: x-3-2-0-1-0 ?

Does the right-hand use:

• p p i m a
• p m i m a
• p i m a m
• etc.

It's not an easy answer for me.

n.b. right-hand pinkie usage excluded!

JonnyBgoode

digitalkettle said:

JonnyBgoode said:

What about a simple ascending arpeggiation of C major: x-3-2-0-1-0 ?

Does the right-hand use:

• p p i m a
• p m i m a
• p i m a m
• etc.

It's not an easy answer for me.

n.b. right-hand pinkie usage excluded!

PPIMA is by far the most natural/ergonomic movement, your other combos all involve an unnecessary alternation and  string crossings. Prepare P on the lower string and IMA on the top 3, P just falls through the first string (rest stroke)  onto the next, its a fundamental arpeggio pattern found in classical guitar studies (eg Giulianis 120) and the basis of rolling all 6 strings ascending.

digitalkettle

JonnyBgoode said:

digitalkettle said:

JonnyBgoode said:

What about a simple ascending arpeggiation of C major: x-3-2-0-1-0 ?

Does the right-hand use:

• p p i m a
• p m i m a
• p i m a m
• etc.

It's not an easy answer for me.

n.b. right-hand pinkie usage excluded!

PPIMA is by far the most natural/ergonomic movement, your other combos all involve an unnecessary alternation and  string crossings. Prepare P on the lower string and IMA on the top 3, P just falls through the first string (rest stroke)  onto the next, its a fundamental arpeggio pattern found in classical guitar studies (eg Giulianis 120) and the basis of rolling all 6 strings ascending.

Seems that way...how about continuous up/down 'rolling' of the arp?

|————-----0———-----—|
|———----1—--1——---—-|
|——---0———----0——---|
|—--2—————------2—--|
|-3———————--------3-|
|———————--——--------|

PPIMA feels a bit thumb heavy, especially at tempo...as it repeats: PPIMAMIP PPIMAMIP etc.

I find I can use PMIMAMIM better...less emphasis on the 2nd fret, D string too.

JonnyBgoode

digitalkettle said:

JonnyBgoode said:

digitalkettle said:

JonnyBgoode said:

What about a simple ascending arpeggiation of C major: x-3-2-0-1-0 ?

Does the right-hand use:

• p p i m a
• p m i m a
• p i m a m
• etc.

It's not an easy answer for me.

n.b. right-hand pinkie usage excluded!

PPIMA is by far the most natural/ergonomic movement, your other combos all involve an unnecessary alternation and  string crossings. Prepare P on the lower string and IMA on the top 3, P just falls through the first string (rest stroke)  onto the next, its a fundamental arpeggio pattern found in classical guitar studies (eg Giulianis 120) and the basis of rolling all 6 strings ascending.

Seems that way...how about continuous up/down 'rolling' of the arp?

Ha I thought you'd ask that :-)  Well you have options here, and you are right about the repeating thumb on the descent /ascent, that's way too clunky.  

My preferred approach would be a simple repetition of I, i is dragged across two strings so its felt as one movement, not two plucks; PPiMAMii..PPiMAMii

Your approach is quite complex, it has an MIM alternation on both  the ascent and descent and has the M finger playing a lower string than the I. If it works for you, great, don't mess, but its not as biomechanically simple as the formula I posted and wouldn't be traditional approach in classical guitar.

Another approach, popular in flamenco, is simply to drag the ring finger across the strings for the descent. Grab a nylon strung and play this chord:

0
0
0
4
4
2

so prepare P on 6th string, IMA on top 3 and play it PPPIMA-AAAAA.   It takes a little practice to replant your fingers in time after that last A.

guitarjack66

I wish I could explain this better. Say you only had access to your thumb and index finger and had to play all open chords such as the C,which frets two C notes of course,which string in relation to the fretted note of the chord would you target and pluck? Assuming we know the thumb will always play the bass note? I tend to play a C/G with the open C but find plucking the low e string does not sound too good.

digitalkettle

guitarjack66 said:

I wish I could explain this better. Say you only had access to your thumb and index finger and had to play all open chords such as the C,which frets two C notes of course,which string in relation to the fretted note of the chord would you target and pluck? Assuming we know the thumb will always play the bass note? I tend to play a C/G with the open C but find plucking the low e string does not sound too good.

This thumb + index limitation is going to restrict what you can do if you really are simply plucking strings.

If I were playing a C/G (3-3-2-0-1-0), I would strum through the bottom three strings with the thumb and get the G, B, and E strings with i, m, and a on the right hand. Or you could simply strum through it with your thumb.

digitalkettle

JonnyBgoode said:

digitalkettle said:

Seems that way...how about continuous up/down 'rolling' of the arp?
...

Ha I thought you'd ask that :-)  Well you have options here, and you are right about the repeating thumb on the descent /ascent, that's way too clunky.  

My preferred approach would be a simple repetition of I, i is dragged across two strings so its felt as one movement, not two plucks; PPiMAMii..PPiMAMii

Your approach is quite complex, it has an MIM alternation on both  the ascent and descent and has the M finger playing a lower string than the I. If it works for you, great, don't mess, but its not as biomechanically simple as the formula I posted and wouldn't be traditional approach in classical guitar.
...

PPIMAMIP: clunky but, funnily enough, it's actually in Giuliani's studies!

Dragging the 'i' finger works for me okay but I have to keep a focus to maintain good time (and much more so if I try an 'a' finger drag with PPIMAAMI). It's like merging alternate and economy picking

I think I put the 'crossing' technique together while studying some Pierre Bensusan.

A little beyond a beginner subject and I'm not sure the OP intended to veer into classical method but it's the internet so it's all good.

Tannin

Lots of different answers here because nobody understands the question! Here is my guess:

Assuming that one of the two notes you are playing is the root, then in standard chords you really only have four choices for the other note.

* Play an octave of the root. Mostly a bit pointless but nice for a change now and then.
* Play the 3rd. This will give you the most distinctive flavour of the chord but isn't so well suited to some styles of music (e.g., rock)
* Play the 5th. This is a powerchord, and rock lives on and for powerchords. Overused, they get boring,
* Play the 7th. You'll probably find this sounds a little odd without some extra notes for context. (Typically the 3rd, but as you please.)

Overall, two-note chords tend not to be very interesting. With three notes, you get a whole wide world of different sounds. 

Note that it is perfectly possible to play fast and well using only finger and thumb on the right hand. Legendary guitar great Merle Travis is famous for it, though there are many others. (I used to play that way myself when I was a bass player. These days I use thumb and three fingers, but slip back to my old one-finger method anytime it seems like a good idea. If I keep on practicing for another thousand years or so, I'll be half as good at it as Merle was.)

JonnyBgoode

digitalkettle said:

PPIMAMIP: clunky but, funnily enough, it's actually in Giuliani's studies!

What edition are you working from, one that definitely uses his original fingering? I must admit I work from more modern sources (eg. Scott Tennant) and I just checked - for study no. 89 he uses the same fingering pattern I suggested above, so does Christopher Berg in his Mel Bay Edition. 

And yeah Bensusan is a little quirky ;-)  monster player of course.

digitalkettle

JonnyBgoode said:

digitalkettle said:

PPIMAMIP: clunky but, funnily enough, it's actually in Giuliani's studies!

What edition are you working from, one that definitely uses his original fingering? I must admit I work from more modern sources (eg. Scott Tennant) and I just checked - for study no. 89 he uses the same fingering pattern I suggested above, so does Christopher Berg in his Mel Bay Edition. 

And yeah Bensusan is a little quirky ;-)  monster player of course.

Yep, #89...I dug it up 'somewhere random' as PPIMAMIP...then remembered I had them in the main Pumping Nylon book (as you referenced: PPIMAMII).

The Bensusan thing came from this kind of exercise:

JonnyBgoode

digitalkettle said:

Yep, #89...I dug it up 'somewhere random' as PPIMAMIP...then remembered I had them in the main Pumping Nylon book (as you referenced: PPIMAMII).

The Bensusan thing came from this kind of exercise:

Right,  gotcha. In that pattern its a perfectly logical fingering, you wouldn't want to play i or P three times successively with a string crossing, so M on the 4th string is the best option. I can see how you'd carry that pattern across to the pattern we were discussing if you got it working well.

Kilgore

I'm not quite sure what the OP is asking. I suspect that different fingerstyle 'styles' (blues, country, pop/ rock instrumentals, etc) would often require a different approach.

Some players stick rigidly to assigning specific fingers and the thumb to specific strings others are less prescriptive. This is a nice little video by Mark Knopfler demonstrating his own approach.