Online learning

CliveG

Anyone use online platforms to improve their playing and what do/did they think of them?
I find a lot of YouTube channels have various types of courses going as well as adverts spouting all sorts. Mostly I just ignore the buzz marketing claims but some seem quite handy.
So any reviews and recommendations are appreciated 
cheers

Cranky

After a few years of searching and watching, I found that there are no good online forums for learning theory.  Either the teacher is bad at explaining it (how many hundreds or thousands of lessons on “the modes” are on YT? and they’re all the same) or they are only talking theory with their peers over my head (looking at you, Beato).  I do like Beato plenty and have bought his stuff, but then that’s just it; I’m not YouTubing him anymore.  It’s really come down to me, a book, a guitar in hand and some pen/paper on hand.  And if you can’t get a proper teacher, pick anyone’s brain you can.  I stopped using YT for lessons about a year ago and it’s been quite refreshing.

Online is best for technique, how to play this or that song, etc.  

Roland

For the basics I think that Justin Sandercoe takes some beating. If you want to learn a song then look at live videos of the original artist. Working out what they’re playing will teach you a lot. If you want to learn a technique then learn a song which features it. That way you’ll learn the technique in context, and be able to apply it.

We used to say “if you can’t do then teach, and if you can’t teach then write books about it”. Today I’d add “if you’re illiterate then make YouTube videos”. A “teaching”video has a 90% probability of showing the wrong chord shapes and/or note positions. As for internet tabs, I imagine that most of them are written by a 14 year old sitting in his bedroom.

CliveG

I got the feeling most were pretty basic and could get you to a decent enough level but then what. Has anyone tried Lick Library?

grappagreen

What is it you want to improve?

Si

CarpeDiem

CliveG said:

I got the feeling most were pretty basic and could get you to a decent enough level but then what. Has anyone tried Lick Library?

I’ve used Lick Library (DVD’s) and been happy with the tuition. The ones with playbacks of the songs being performed are particularly useful.

CliveG

Grappagreen. I’d like to get more into Jazz and some fingerpicking also my theory could be polished 
CarpeDiem. When learning songs is there any reference to theory at all? or is it just,  do this… do that …. And voilà you have a songy song

CarpeDiem

@CliveG The Lick Library DVD’s I’ve viewed have tended to say the chord name or key the song is played in, and also if altered tuning, but the main focus is in learning the song. It’s worth checking out their website as they cover a wide range of topics, including some theory. If you’re happy with online learning, it may be considering a subscription.
I found the best way to learn theory is from a book as it was better structured and sequenced.

grappagreen

When it comes to fingerpicking Truefire have some great stuff online. Truefire is generally a fantastic resource..

I you want to get into Jazz I would still recommend just buying the classic Micky Baker Jazz rhythm guitar book and working through it. Also grab a Jazz Fake book and take what you learn and play some standards.. make music and try not to get into the 'jazz theory vortex' too early. As my old teacher used to say 'music theory without application is just useless abstraction'. BTW, learning the melody lines of the masters is the gateway to Jazz soloing IMHO. If you can learn some of Bird's classic lines and apply them you're already getting to a good place.

From a music theory perspective Rick Beato has a great course online that really does cover everything you need to know and lots you don't. Music theory obviously has a place but it should always be secondary to actually making/learning music. We seem to have lost the path a little I feel.

Hope that helps.

Si

CliveG

Food for thought indeed chaps. I think I am a bit too focused on theory. When I was younger I played in a few bands and new very little of what I was actually playing beyond the key and a handy pentatonic riff. After a long sabbatical I’ve started playing again and seem to have taken a snipers focus to learning theory…. I can play scales back to front etc etc but I’m fuckt if anyone asks for a tune (maybe a slight exaggeration but you get what I mean) think I’ll lift a few fake books and a theory book and roll my sleeves up.
cheers
I’m I the only one who Rick Beato’s hair does them in?

CarpeDiem

@CliveG I’d recommend the book Harmony & Theory by Keith Wyatt and Carl Schroeder. It explains theory in a well structured way and also includes a test at the end of each chapter so you can check your level of understanding as you progress. It would give you a good foundation if you want to progress onto jazz theory.

If you want to learn how to play songs, it would be worth joining a band again. This has helped me develop in terms of confidence, timing, and musicality. As a minimum, play along with songs. Hope this is of some help.

CliveG

Thanks @CarpeDiem I’ll give that book a go and to be honest I did really enjoy playing out with a band even though usually in a practice room it would be freezing and we couldn’t see each other for smoke lol
 Cheers

Evo

I'm going to try and offer a different perspective here as a teacher, and someone that's usually the one with the knowledge trying to get it over to somebody else.

"Theory" seems to have this reputation as an element of guitar which lives exclusively in books and the beards of jazz wizards. In my experience, music theory only seems to click into place when it's put into practice. So rather than reading a book and trying to do what it tells you, look at what you're already doing and ask yourself "why does this work?"

If you do that, statements such as "a popular compositional device in modern songwriting is the use of the minor IV chord" become "It sounded good when Radiohead did that C major to C minor chord in Creep". When you look at it that way, you start to notice it in other places like "wake me up when September ends" and then you have a reference in your mind of what the concept sounds like. 

Look at the blues licks you play and try to work out why they sound good, do they outline specific chords? are they weird chords? 

The bottom line is, music theory needs to be a practical subject. If you don't put the things you learn into practice (regularly!) then they generally tend to drop out of your memory quite quickly. So start with looking at things you already do but can't explain why, then look for the answer. It's probably out there in theory-land somewhere (or stuck in a jazz wizard's beard)

CliveG

Evo, Sage advice my friend I am very much willing to look around a find the answers without really knowing what questions I need to ask. I then just excuse it by thinking, “must be theory then I’ll learn theory”. I guess what your saying is : find what I consider confusing then look for the answers. Yea your right cos most theory books start with the basic fundamentals, chord spelling, scales etc etc and after the first few chapters it’s been there done that throw book on the pile find another book. 

Yes I’ll do that. I’m very guilty of learning tabs etc and just taking it for granted without asking why does, like you say that major to minor switch sound soo good. Well now I’ll go find out.
Evo if you don’t have a beard you certainly have earned one!

CaseOfAce

Evo said:

If you do that, statements such as "a popular compositional device in modern songwriting is the use of the minor IV chord" become "It sounded good when Radiohead did that C major to C minor chord in Creep". When you look at it that way, you start to notice it in other places like "wake me up when September ends" and then you have a reference in your mind of what the concept sounds like. 

Last week working on Bob Dylan's Make you Feel My Love (as subsequently popularised by this generation's Cilla Black - Adele).

It goes C# major down to G#major... then G# minor oh... so he's doing a V to a V minor (oh ok... that's cool...)...then it goes F# major to F# minor - 
which is the old IV major to IV minor Creep thing above. He's not just doing a IVminor but a V minor beforehand! Really laying it on!

I think it also features an alternating Vminor to II to I AND a Vmajor to II to I (hey man...jazz!!).

Whether Dylan knows any of the above... no idea... he doesn't strike me as a beardy weardy type fella .... but he damn well knows how it sounds in the context of a song with conflict and resolution.

guitarjack66

CaseOfAce said:

Evo said:

If you do that, statements such as "a popular compositional device in modern songwriting is the use of the minor IV chord" become "It sounded good when Radiohead did that C major to C minor chord in Creep". When you look at it that way, you start to notice it in other places like "wake me up when September ends" and then you have a reference in your mind of what the concept sounds like. 

Last week working on Bob Dylan's Make you Feel My Love (as subsequently popularised by this generation's Cilla Black - Adele).

It goes C# major down to G#major... then G# minor oh... so he's doing a V to a V minor (oh ok... that's cool...)...then it goes F# major to F# minor - 
which is the old IV major to IV minor Creep thing above. He's not just doing a IVminor but a V minor beforehand! Really laying it on!

I think it also features an alternating Vminor to II to I AND a Vmajor to II to I (hey man...jazz!!).

Whether Dylan knows any of the above... no idea... he doesn't strike me as a beardy weardy type fella .... but he damn well knows how it sounds in the context of a song with conflict and resolution.

Love the Adele to Cilla Black comparison. I'm a scouser and I despise Cilla Black,as do a fair few of us in our neck of the woods. At least Adele seems able to sing,a bit,and isn't a self confessed tory. 
Adele does seem amazingly popular in the mainstream though which surprises me personally. 

CaseOfAce

guitarjack66 said:

CaseOfAce said:

Evo said:

If you do that, statements such as "a popular compositional device in modern songwriting is the use of the minor IV chord" become "It sounded good when Radiohead did that C major to C minor chord in Creep". When you look at it that way, you start to notice it in other places like "wake me up when September ends" and then you have a reference in your mind of what the concept sounds like. 

Last week working on Bob Dylan's Make you Feel My Love (as subsequently popularised by this generation's Cilla Black - Adele).

It goes C# major down to G#major... then G# minor oh... so he's doing a V to a V minor (oh ok... that's cool...)...then it goes F# major to F# minor - 
which is the old IV major to IV minor Creep thing above. He's not just doing a IVminor but a V minor beforehand! Really laying it on!

I think it also features an alternating Vminor to II to I AND a Vmajor to II to I (hey man...jazz!!).

Whether Dylan knows any of the above... no idea... he doesn't strike me as a beardy weardy type fella .... but he damn well knows how it sounds in the context of a song with conflict and resolution.

Love the Adele to Cilla Black comparison. I'm a scouser and I despise Cilla Black,as do a fair few of us in our neck of the woods. At least Adele seems able to sing,a bit,and isn't a self confessed tory. 
Adele does seem amazingly popular in the mainstream though which surprises me personally. 

I sadly can't take the credit for that one. 
It's another Noel Gallagher gem.