Finding big stretches difficult (guitar based)

Onpar

After a couple of years gigging after the Covid holiday and being content with my ability, my playing has reached a plateau. But I am now looking to improve and 'level-up'. I have tried learning legato but I am finding I just cannot make the stretches across 5 or 6 frets. Tried learning a John Cordy legato pentatonic pattern and found it impossible to reach.

Do I just have short fingers or is there a way for me to achieve this style of playing?

Finger stretches? (yoga for guitarists)
Thinner guitar neck?
Narrower guitar neck?
Just play the higher frets?
Hand position? (tried a few positions but still can't make it)
Take up the tambourine instead?

DefaultM

Got an example?

guitarmangler

Yes, an example would be good. 9 times out of 10 it’s hand position, tho .

sev112

Loosen left hand grip
and instead of thumb pad flat on the back of the neck, see what you can achieve with just the thumb tip touching the back of the neck.

if you find with the latter that you’re not getting enough finger pressure, then DONT try and do re your left fingers down, instead squeeze the guitar body with your right side elbow

hollywoodrox

I can see your problem eg  a three note per string  pattern on frets  3  5  7   Or   1 3 5 
  Is not very comfy  I use fingers  1 2 & 4 on these . Best to try & approach them further up the neck to get used to it and try doing the bigger stretches on 3 5 & 7  slowly . I find it helps with the guitar a lot higher than usual . 3 5 7 does get better with slow repetition  daily ,don’t do too much though   Some sort of stretching and massaging before you start too . 

It’s not so bad if you’re teens or 20’s  as I’m sure sure tendons or ligaments whatever can stretch naturally ,but when you’re in your 50s I’m not so sure ,although I’m finding 3 5  7 stretches a lot better now  but the main thing is to not do any damage to your self .

the ultimate answer is to set up your legato runs using the smaller stretches across 4 frets  employing whatever means possible  in 3 note per string and caged scales  also incorporating slides in the 5 fret stretches or bigger .

I don’t have my Gibson or epiphone to hand at the moment but probably the very small incremental decrease in scale length  might even help  . Brilliant question though ,especially for us with older arms and hands .

am looking forward to seeing some answers on here 
I’m sure though that there is a solution even if it means incorporating a deft slide into the run  or a tap with a finger of the right hand (this is a good way to get round some stretches further up the fretboard , I’m sure there’s some in some van halen solos like beat it , or jump where he has a long stretch but you can get away with tapping it .

best of luck to you  Paul 

Tannin

I'm sure you know this already, but the most useful single trick I know is to look at where my thumb is. Nine times out of ten, if I'm struggling with a stretch, my thumb is too far to the left. Centre it up (relative to the four fingers) and the tension eases. But I have to keep reminding myself. 

fastonebaz

I cannot play 3 5 7 or 1 3 5 type lego runs, my fingers just don't stretch that way.  All my legato runs are like 5 7 8, 11 12 14 etc.

Just different positions.

12 14 16 is easy enough so maybe work out scale positions and play the easier pattern lower on the fretboard and leave the 5 fret shapes to above the 12th fret.

Works for me.

hollywoodrox

fastonebaz said:

I cannot play 3 5 7 or 1 3 5 type lego runs, my fingers just don't stretch that way.  All my legato runs are like 5 7 8, 11 12 14 etc.

Just different positions.

12 14 16 is easy enough so maybe work out scale positions and play the easier pattern lower on the fretboard and leave the 5 fret shapes to above the 12th fret.

Works for me.

There you go  & Baz shreds , he also takes advantage of his innate tapping proficiency .

fastonebaz

Ah yes tapping masks a multitude of my weaknesses  

hollywoodrox

fastonebaz said:

Ah yes tapping masks a multitude of my weaknesses  

It’s a valid technique in itself , Steve Lynch & Jennifer Batten used it extensively at one time  & cmbined with legato etc it sounds amazing 

Roland

When playing legato over frets 3 5 7 don’t be afraid to lift your first finger from 3 as you hammer on 7. It’s a rolling action of the left hand, rather than what I think of as a typewriter motion. Besides dealing with the stretch it also helps put a little more energy into the hammer action.

Danny1969

I think we all struggle in one way or another with technique. My problem with stretches is I started playing when very young with no teacher and picked up the bad habit of using my little finger as a third finger. However, as bad as that is it led to having a lot of strength in my little finger so I can now do some crazy stretches which is handy for copying people like van Halen 

Might be some help in here 

JAYJO

Danny1969 said:

I think we all struggle in one way or another with technique. My problem with stretches is I started playing when very young with no teacher and picked up the bad habit of using my little finger as a third finger. However, as bad as that is it led to having a lot of strength in my little finger so I can now do some crazy stretches which is handy for copying people like van Halen 

Might be some help in here 

cheers mate. subbed.

grappagreen

I have really short fingers and good technique but still faced challenges (more around the inherent tension that long stretches create and therefore impact on fluidity and legato timing). Given I was sick and tired of long fingered people having an innate advantage I had a 24" scale guitar made Problem solved and boy it's a nice guitar!

Onpar

Hello, OP here.

Awesome advice! Thanks so much. Lots to try. And it's good to know that there are others that find the big stretches tricky. 

Barney

I have small fingers but manage legato runs ...I honestly don't think it comes into unless it's really wide stretches or 4 nps ...main thing is get your thumb at the back of the neck in the middle ...and leave a gap on the top E side of the neck so the only thing making contact is your finger tips and thumb 

grappagreen

You may want to consider purchasing Tom Quayle's legato technique course #1. It's great for not only working on legato but covers some of the physical aspects..

It's not expensive, helps with the physical aspect and, if practiced, will turn you into a REALLY good legato practitioner..

Si

Onpar

grappagreen said:

You may want to consider purchasing Tom Quayle's legato technique course #1. It's great for not only working on legato but covers some of the physical aspects..

It's not expensive, helps with the physical aspect and, if practiced, will turn you into a REALLY good legato practitioner..

Si

I'll take a look. Cheers! 

PAL

Lots of good points made here. Thin or narrow neck is not always the answer the scale of the guitar could help.
 Best thing is to go and try guitars with various necks and scale until you feel comfortable with a particular guitar.
 Also don't think thin neck makes things easier sometimes these can cause strain on the hand so be open minded.
Hope this helps.

viz

PAL said:

Lots of good points made here. Thin or narrow neck is not always the answer the scale of the guitar could help.
 Best thing is to go and try guitars with various necks and scale until you feel comfortable with a particular guitar.
 Also don't think thin neck makes things easier sometimes these can cause strain on the hand so be open minded.
Hope this helps.

I find this interesting, because violinists don’t seem to worry, so there are probably violin-based techniques that could be helpful. I know I play the guitar quite a lot like a violinist, because I used to be one, even though my guitar necks aren’t especially thin. 

Evo

This is an interesting topic for me, I have absolutely monstrous hands and don't generally struggle reaching any particular stretches...however!!

I do find that shifting from one stretch to another brings with it a whole new set of problems vs practicing the stretches individually. This particular problem really showcased itself when I was looking at Guthrie Govan's octave tapping arpeggio technique from Fives and Wonderful Slippery Thing. It wasn't the stretches on each string I was struggling with, it was always the string skip and fret jump that caused me issues. 

I have since suspected that it may be first finger laziness but that remains to be confirmed.