Do I want a parlour and do I want it to be my only acoustic?

hessodreamy

For a while I've been dissatisfied with the dreadnoughts that I've owned or tried or listened to demos of. I keep feeling that they lack character or, I guess, a sense of intimacy, for lack of a better word. The sparkly top end doesn't really do it for me. I'm mostly just strumming or some Paul Simon-style picking.

I keep looking at smaller bodies like OO or OOO but still nothing excites me. Then I found this vid 



where a guy is playing a Gretsch Jim Dandy and experiments with a rubber bridge. I kinda like that, with or without the rubber. I tried the Dandy in a store, it was ok but I think I preferred the Taylor baby. But...

- I would normally spend at least £500 second hand on a guitar, and the Gretsch and Taylor are pretty cheap.
- Dreadnoughts are super versatile. Would I miss the stuff a dread can do that the little guitars can't?

I'm wondering if I should get a cheap parlour as a second acoustic, and maybe miss out on what a better parlour could do, or get a decent parlour as my main acoustic and risk missing out on the versatility of a dread and regret the choice later on.

Anyone else been on a similar journey?

RickLucas

Occasionally I try to convince myself (n+1!) that I should have a J35 or a J185 too, but when I look at comparison videos, the dreadnought wins every time.

malcolmkindness

I think you should try an Eastman E10 00 or E20 00. Twice the price but ten times better than a baby Taylor.

drofluf

I find the 00/000 size the sweet spot.  My ideal guitar is a a 12 fret 00 and just has a fuller more balanced sound than my parlour. But the parlour wins hands down for “pick up and play”. 

On rubber bridges Aaron Dessner uses one to great effect on Taylor Swift’s Folklore. I’d love to try one but it wouldn’t be my only guitar. 

Andy79

I’ve had scores of 0 an 00 Guitars over the years and the one common theme among them, cheap sub £300 ones are generally disappointing in all but the mid range. I wouldn’t limit yourself to only one low end small guitar. Have one as a secondary 

Fishboy7

What is a parlour size anyway? Smaller than an 0 I suppose?

shufflebeat

I’m a regular Dread player and I had no real interest in smaller body guitars but I wandered into a music shop and found a Takamine ef407.

I was absolutely entranced, it was both beautiful sounding and gorgeous to play.

Unfortunately (or maybe not) they don’t do a left-handed model.

mgaw

I have an Eastman 1 0M which is great versatile guitar. 24.9 scale length which is lovely to play.  I would recommend them. I paid around £395 

Jez6345789

It’s always hard to think about having just one guitar but I do enjoy my little Gretsch gin rickey. It does a lot of things including the rubber bridge lo fi effects thing and it also does other things interesting things and it’s cheap as chips. If I had the money I would love a vintage Martin 00 or single 0 not for the same reason but I love small acoustics As I don’t do a lot of dread naught stuff but I think there is an awful lot of good cheap dreads these days so happy to have the versatile little grunge machine and a moderate dreadnaught. In the end guitar life is too short for those sorts of compromises. 

drofluf

Fishboy7 said:

What is a parlour size anyway? Smaller than an 0 I suppose?

There’s no real standard sometimes 0 and parlour are the same sometimes the parlour is smaller. But this gives an overview https://www.guitarworld.com/features/martin-acoustic-body-sizes

stickyfiddle

My 2 acoustics are an Atkin Forty Seven (LG2-alike) and Bourgeois mahogany dread. I wouldn't be without either. You can play anything on either of them, of course, but there's nothing quite like a late night sat on the couch finger picking the little Atkin. 

english_bob

Fishboy7 said:

What is a parlour size anyway? Smaller than an 0 I suppose?

This is a reasonable guide to the relative size and shape we're talking about:

maltingsaudio

Cards on table I don’t like them unless plugged in. My Brother in law won’t play anything else except his Dobro. I find them too boxy after a period of time playing and long for the extra bass response of something bigger. The sound for me , is too tight. 

What I would suggest for @hessodreamy at this point is get a nylon acoustic to compliment his dreadnought. 

I bought this Chinese Martinez acoustic a while back for his budget, and it really does fill in all the gaps when I get tired of the steel strung acoustics 

Tannin

Hi @hessodreamy. I think the key to finding a good answer to your question might lie in this bit:

hessodreamy said: For a while I've been dissatisfied with the dreadnoughts that I've owned or tried or listened to demos of. I keep feeling that they lack character or, I guess, a sense of intimacy, for lack of a better word. The sparkly top end doesn't really do it for me.
 There are two parts here. Taking the second one first, a "sparkly top end" isn't a dreadnought characteristic. Yes, dreads can be sparkly, but no more than any other body type, and some people would say less so than things like concert size guitars. (Concert size is much the same as 00. Same thing, different term.) 

"Sparkly top end" is more characteristic of certain makes. Taylor guitars tend to be toppy, so do lots of Asian-made guitars, my new Furch is very sparkly. Contrast with Guilds and Matons which tend to be glassy rather than sparkly, and with Martins which are anything but sparkly. 

Another thing which tends to produce a sound many people would describe as "sparkly" is a rosewood back. Rosewood has a lot of bass as well, but has a strong, sweet top end - a bit too much for some people.

Turning to your first point, "character" and "intimacy" are different for every different player, but in my opinion often tend to be most apparent in mid-size guitars. By their nature, mid-size guitars (00s and OMs and concert size guitars) tend to have better string separation, and I think that leads to character. As for intimacy (at least as for what I imagine you mean by the term!) you can't go past Western Red Cedar as a top material. Cedar doesn't have the snap and attack of spruce (but it still has plenty), instead it has a more open, welcoming sound, clearer and yet warmer. Back materials from the softer end of the hardwood spectrum (mahogany, Queensland Maple, walnut, Koa) also help with this, though the back makes far less difference than the top. 

TLDR: look for a cedar-top guitar, probably in a mid-size but it could be a dred or even a jumbo. Play a few and see if that's the sort of thing you are looking for.

sir_strumalot

Yes, an Eastman E2OM or E2D cedar top would get rid of the sparkly top end problem.

crunchman

english_bob said:

Fishboy7 said:

What is a parlour size anyway? Smaller than an 0 I suppose?

This is a reasonable guide to the relative size and shape we're talking about:

That's useful, but it doesn't show you the depth.  A dreadnought or jumbo will typically have a deeper body front to back than the smaller body styles.  That makes quite a difference.

One other note.  The modern 14 fret Martin OOO is the same shape as the OM, just with a different scale length.

Scale length is another thing to consider.  If you want something with a bit less sparkle, an OOO with a 24.9" scale length will sound a bit warmer than the longer scale guitars.  Dreadnoughts and OMs normally have a 25.4" scale.

drofluf

crunchman said:

Scale length is another thing to consider.  If you want something with a bit less sparkle, an OOO with a 24.9" scale length will sound a bit warmer than the longer scale guitars.  Dreadnoughts and OMs normally have a 25.4" scale.

Also whether the neck joins the body at 12th or 14th fret (or the 13th if you must )

guitarjack66

Just to clarify or jargon bust if you like, does top end mean higher pitched and bottom end more bass driven,if you like? Some of this stuff still confuses me as I don't spend any time around fellow musos.

Tannin

^ In a word, yes. Top end = treble; bottom end = bass. Roughly speaking anyway. I would tend to talk about "treble" when I'm discussing the higher notes but talk about "top end" when I'm discussing the quality of a sound. I guess that other people do the same but that is just a guess.

crunchman

The other way to get a warmer sound with less top end is to get something with different woods.  An all mahogany guitar like a Martin OOO-15 would normally have more midrange and less top end than a guitar with a spruce top.  Or get something with a cedar top as suggested by @sir_strumalot.

shufflebeat

guitarjack66 said:

Just to clarify or jargon bust if you like, does top end mean higher pitched and bottom end more bass driven,if you like? Some of this stuff still confuses me as I don't spend any time around fellow musos.

Top would refer to the higher end of the audible spectrum (in Hz and kHz) rather than higher pitched, which might be described in note names (C6, Bb7, etc.).

The higher end of the guitar spectrum would manifest itself in pick/finger noise and percussive strumming while the lower end would be fuller and warmer sounding, although “warmer” can also mean less hi Hz, or just duller.

Also, both top and bottom can be pleasant and harmonious or badly defined and dischordant.

Fret buzz/rattle is hi Hz and awful, bad bass can be boomy or muddy.