Flamenco techniques for steel string players?

Tannin

Following on from the thread about strumming - https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/257106/the-joy-of-strumming -  I'm watching a series of rasgueado lessons with a view to incorporating a bit of that technique in my steel string playing. 

Is that sensible? Can I use those flamenco right hand techniques on a steel string guitar, or at least borrow bits of them?

Are there other bits of flamenco technique which would be good for steel string players to learn?

JonnyBgoode

No its not sensible unless you want a quick way to completely shred your nails :-)

I mean, yeah you could play some flamenco techniques on a steel strung, sort of,  but why? They sound so much better on the instrument they were designed to play.  Very light rumba strumming would just about work, with some light gauge strings,  triplet rasgueados that are worked from the wrist also.

Aside from rasgueado the techniques in flamenco are basically picado (scale runs), arpegio, tremolo, pulgar (including alzapua).

Arpegio tech is pretty much the same, I've never seen a steel string player play fast scale runs with IM rest stroke (very uncomfortable) and for the thumb (puigar) simple rest stroke lines could be  useful if you want to mute an adjacent string or just get a big sound.  Some Irish music can be played with trills that is a little similar tremolo technique.

Flamenco techniques translate well into the Spanish repertoire on classical guitar because of the similarities in some of the music. On steel strung though, I'm struggling to see much use. 

sev112

Yep it’s been my standard strumming technique for years 

thomasross20

I do a bit of it.
But only a bit... As destroys the nails so all in moderation. 

Tannin

Cheers lads. 

@sev112 - tell me more!

Nail destruction is unlikely to be an issue. I have very weak nails naturally and have them coated with hard silicon every couple of weeks. 

Why learn a little bit of rasgueado? To add flourishes and emulate the fast mandolin-strum stuff I used to do with a plectrum, back when I used to use one. I'm slowly getting some of that back but it's much, much more difficult with fingertips than with a plectrum.

Some things I've learned so far:

* the emphasis on posture, arm position, hand position and wrist curvature - all with the aim of getting the wrist and hand as relaxed as possible. 
* thumb resting! That's a really odd feel, and I find it difficult to do it for any length of time as my deeply ingrained habits of either heel resting or little-ginger resting re-assert themselves unless I maintain constant vigilance! But it changes the whole muscular dynamic.
* downstrokes with the fingers! (Not the wrist.) That's really different. I don't get anything like the same power or speed with fingers - my wrist is used to flicking and has the developed muscles to do it with power and control. My fingers are much more hesitant. 

I've been watching this chap: 



He has one of the worst guitar faces going around, but even if I don't end up using any of the techniques, his emphasis on awareness of position and working with relaxed muscles is something I can certainly benefit from.

PS: picking up a nylon string guitar - more likely flamenco than classical but I could go either way - and learning to play it a bit is not out of the question. Having bought two new guitars home in a single week not long ago, and quite liking being married, that move isn't on the cards anytime this year.:)

PPS: I don't play any repertoire of style of music. Apart from my years in the 1980s playing bass in a covers band (and that was simply for money) I have always played my own stuff and never enjoyed playing covers enough to lean songs all the way through. I would have described my genre as rock with borrowed influences from folk and other things, but over the last little while three different people have categorised my playing as "jazz" (it isn't, though i borrow stuff), "funk" (it isn't - hell, I play solo acoustic and fingerpick!) and "flamenco" (which it most certainly isn't!)

thomasross20

When you get the technique it's like mastering pinched harmonics on electric, very satisfying lol

Soupman

Interesting video. 
His fingers certainly do some fast work.
Must admit I've always liked the Spanish/flamenco styles (but never learned them).
  

sev112

I grew up playing classical.  But I’ve always bitten my nails, so no fingernails.  

So I don’t know what started me but strumming with just a smaller than usual index finger nail didn’t work.  Either I read about Rasqueaaaados  or I just found that flicking all 4 fingers across the nylon strings worked well . And I’ve stuck with it for general strumming even on steel string

guitarjack66

Tannin said:

Cheers lads. 

@sev112 - tell me more!

Nail destruction is unlikely to be an issue. I have very weak nails naturally and have them coated with hard silicon every couple of weeks. 

Why learn a little bit of rasgueado? To add flourishes and emulate the fast mandolin-strum stuff I used to do with a plectrum, back when I used to use one. I'm slowly getting some of that back but it's much, much more difficult with fingertips than with a plectrum.

Some things I've learned so far:

* the emphasis on posture, arm position, hand position and wrist curvature - all with the aim of getting the wrist and hand as relaxed as possible. 
* thumb resting! That's a really odd feel, and I find it difficult to do it for any length of time as my deeply ingrained habits of either heel resting or little-ginger resting re-assert themselves unless I maintain constant vigilance! But it changes the whole muscular dynamic.
* downstrokes with the fingers! (Not the wrist.) That's really different. I don't get anything like the same power or speed with fingers - my wrist is used to flicking and has the developed muscles to do it with power and control. My fingers are much more hesitant. 

I've been watching this chap: 



He has one of the worst guitar faces going around, but even if I don't end up using any of the techniques, his emphasis on awareness of position and working with relaxed muscles is something I can certainly benefit from.

PS: picking up a nylon string guitar - more likely flamenco than classical but I could go either way - and learning to play it a bit is not out of the question. Having bought two new guitars home in a single week not long ago, and quite liking being married, that move isn't on the cards anytime this year.:)

PPS: I don't play any repertoire of style of music. Apart from my years in the 1980s playing bass in a covers band (and that was simply for money) I have always played my own stuff and never enjoyed playing covers enough to lean songs all the way through. I would have described my genre as rock with borrowed influences from folk and other things, but over the last little while three different people have categorised my playing as "jazz" (it isn't, though i borrow stuff), "funk" (it isn't - hell, I play solo acoustic and fingerpick!) and "flamenco" (which it most certainly isn't!)

You'd never guess Diego Alonso would have Spanish heritage at all!