Advice needed for recording, mixing mastering headphone suggestions

Bradders

I am looking to upgrade my headphones for mixing and mastering.

I currently use an RME babyface pro fs with the beyerdynamic DT 770 pros and no studio monitors right now as I am renting a room in a house and there's no point in getting monitors and treating the room as it would disturb the household too much. I am looking to invest it a decent set of cans up to £400 and develop my ear for mixing/mastering with headphones.

My productions conisit of ambient style, minimalist instrumental music with acoustic guitar, soft pads and synths, woodwinds and piano with other percussive instuments sprinkled across the sound scape. I would love something that offers a wide stereo image, great seperation, flat neutral response with good gain stage respresentation.

Current considerations are:

Beyer DT 1770 pro (closed back) or dt 1990 pro (open back)

Sennheiser HD 600/660s (open back)

Audeze LCD - 2 or x (there seem to be some bargains on the used market - open or closed back)

Verum 1 (Small workshop in Ukraine - open back)

I really like the sound of the Verum 1's, and love that they are produced by a small team in Ukraine and apparently sound like Audeze LCD - x's. The only thing is there is a long wait time up to 2 months which I can wait out if needs be.

I would love to know thoughts and advice from anyone who has experience with one or more of the headphones mentioned. I have listened to demos and my least favourite are the Sennheiser so Im not convinced about these.

Im also wondering whether to go with open or closed back. I know Closed are better for isolation and reducing background noise intereference. I have a lot of road noise outside my window. But so many say open back sound much better with having that room for the sound to breathe allowing for a much better listening experience.

My plan is to record using the DT 770 pros that I have to avoid sound bleading into the mics and to use the open backs for mixing and mastering unless open backs are not a good choice for my current situation with the outside noise.

Please let me know your thoughts?

Thanks

Winny_Pooh

Open backs are less fatiguing when used for a long time but still mentally tiring which monitors wont do. Even if you mix on headphones buy a small set of speakers (I used to use a set of jbl pc speakers off to the side, now some auratone copies) that you can sanity check balance on, maybe even a single fostex 6301nb.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/284595836193?mkcid=16&mkevt=1&mkrid=711-127632-2357-0&ssspo=5ihVaqiFRrm&sssrc=2349624&ssuid=tXAsncnbQFC&var=&widget_ver=artemis&media=COPY


Getting centre channel volume balance right can be a mind fuck on headphones, as well as correct reverb levels. 

Even if you stick with headphones make sure you compare to references & monitor in mono from time to time too

Stuckfast

Good shortlist, though I'm not familiiar with the Verums. 

The Audeze open-back phones are great, but I'm not sure if the closed-back versions sound as good. Also they're quite delicate so personally I'd probably steer for a new pair of MM-100 rather than a used pair of LCDs unless you're confident that the owner has looked after them.

In the open-back world I'd also consider the Shure SRH1840, which are excellent, and the Neumann NDH 30 which are great if a little above your price bracket.  

If you go closed back consider the Audix A150, those are really good for the money.

theatreanchor

I use the Beyer DT 770 pro and they’re pretty good! Dont know how much people have to spend, but if you’re paying the same amount as a mix / mastering engineer - I’d just pay someone else to do it!  

Jonathanthomas83

I've got a Babyface Pro and use Sennheiser HD650's with it. I love them. What puts you off them? 

Bezzer

Simplest advice I can give is:
open back (essential really)
comfortable
the best you can sensibly afford. 

At the end of the day the most important aspect is learning your headphones. So listen to loads of music you know well through them. That way you’ll learn where you need to compensate for their failings … this is the same for any headphones, any speakers and any room.

You can build EQ compensation curves, but if you’ve spent the time learning them and using references you’ll be grand. 

Bradders

Cheers for all the feedback, advice and suggestions. I've been researching the suggested headphones. Those Nuemann ND 30 are quite lovely, perhaps I'll stretch the budget for those!

I will look more into the Sennheiser HD600/650's. From the demos and reviews they seem to be on the darker side and less analytical with not as spacious and airy an audio image as the beyerdynamics and audeze.

But its early days in my search and I will take my time with the decision.

I have had the DT 770s for almost 3 years and use them for literally everything, music production, casual listening, watching movies etc and they are as solid as the day I bought them and my ears are so use to them so I am happy with these for the moment. They will certainly continue to be sufficient for my needs for now.

Gadget

Have you considered the Slate VSX?

I have a set incoming and they're £100 off at the moment st SX Pro...

https://sxpro.co.uk/product/steven-slate-audio-vsx-modeling-headphones-platinum/

mrleon83

I have sennheiser hd650, open back fairly neutral sound. Always happy with the results .

i can’t help but feel that when you’re dealing with that end of the market it’s more about comfort and learning the headphones :-) 

colourofsound

I have the HD600s and I’ve mixed and mastered in them; and I think they’re really good.

they’re not dark at all (in fact - they notoriously start dipping around 50hz so they’re not great for sub-bass mixing) and I find them very neutral.

Beyers are known to be quite bright headphone; it’s the signature sound of the brand. If you A/B’d them with Senns then they’ll definitely seem dark.

Consider this: they were your least favourite because of their neutrality. I think generally speaking people are disappointed by studio-grade headphones because they’re not hyped; they’re not exciting by design. What you’re looking for is clarity and separation, which HD600s provide in spades.

colourofsound

Having said that - I am very interested in these; they get very good reviews.

https://aiaiai.audio/headphones/tma-2-studio-wireless-plus

Bradders

Some interesting points the HD 600 headphones. Im am looking at them more seriously now with the many positive recommendations. I may grab some to test. 

I remember looking into the Aiaiai wireless studio headphones. I do remember some comments about latency but then there were others saying it was not noticeable. 

We certainly are spoilt for choice these days which really creates unnecessary complexity with far too many reviews and conflicting opinions flying around whilst trying to cut through the hype to find the transparent reviews. 

Musicwolf

Bezzer said:

At the end of the day the most important aspect is learning your headphones.

This, in spades.

Having used AKG k702s for a few years now, with good results, this week I took delivery of a pair of, as new, Sennheiser HD650s courtesy of @Barnezy (great to deal with btw).  Both great headphones but very different, each with their own strengths and weaknesses.

Very early days for the Sennheisers but they do seem to have more bass whilst feeling somehow less open than the AKGs.  Either set should be capable of giving good results once you've learned’ them.