Eric Johnson style pedals for a TM Deluxe Reverb

lucy_strat

Hi everyone hope we are all well ^_^ just getting back to playing after a Nerve Injury in my neck (none guitar related)

I'm playing a Fender TM Deluxe an a 56' avri lefty strat 

I've never really used pedals before as I mainly play Wes Montgomery/ Danny Kirwan Fleetwood Mac an Shadows stuff an I'm getting really into Eric Johnson stuff again Trademark, Manhattan Eas Wes stuff like that an was looking at a few options for pedals as I'm mainly chasing his Clean and lead tones for the bits I wanna learn.

Just paid for Eric's course on truefire so wanting to ballpark some tones a bit 

I've been looking at quite a few options but being in the UK with regards to the lead tone I keep finding myself unsure what to buy.

I've seen 2 brilliant videos of EJ,

The one where he builds a small rig with Rick Beatos pedals which was a Belle Epoch, Keeley DDR set on the delay/analogue setting with the drive on TS into a JHS Bonzai set on the TS808 setting.

An the other the Sweetwater one with his clinic board.

Which was a

Belle Epoch, DDR, Zen Drive, SCF by Tc electronic, zen drive an a Dover Drive.

(Not in chain order)

I was thinking of two possible plans budget wise as I'm a lil tight on funds.

Belle Epoch an a SCF to start for the clean tone

an a drive of some sort for the lead tone.

The question is I'm not quite sure what drive to get over here in the UK there's not any dover drives floating around.

Just curious has anyone chased down a similar path? For playing at home volume levels.

Not sure whether to get the DDR or not with the Epoch an forgo the chorus initially.

Or Epoch an a drive.

I also saw this clip of Chelsea Constable which sounds on point! But she's playing a hekkin expensive amp out of interest has anyone had one of those dark matter distortion pedals?

Even if its not 100% to begin with just after getting some more foundation to my tone to make practicing enjoyable in the ballpark sound wise. Especially if I start trying to climb a bit of the mountain that is Cliffs.

I've also seen a few Boss drive pedals, golden cello an a Keeley Oxblood mentioned in some older posts.

Huge thanks in advance as there's so much choice! It'd be interesting to hear from anyone that's used any of the drive pedals / combinations at home volume.

From what I understand the original Austin City Limits lead chain was tube driver, echoplex an 100 watt plexi with 4x12 g12-80s 

Lucy

Any advice super appreciated an if anyone's not seen them I hope you enjoy the clips I was watching.

Dave_Mc

I hope you're ok after your nerve injury

I haven't tried the tonemasters so I'm not sure how they handle pedals. You'd really want to try a few pedals with your amp just to see. (Dirt pedals, I mean. Modellers don't always take dirt pedals as well as tube amps do, and everything I say about them from here is assuming that your amp does take pedals more or less like a tube amp.)

I don't think you need to spend a ton on pedals- I don't think by and large Eric Johnson has used anything too out-there and for home use you can get away with pretty cheap clones. I think he used a tubescreamer (there's an absolute ton of clones of these around from the likes of Joyo etc.) and a fuzz face (Mooer does a cheapish clone of it, maybe there are others too). And a Butler Tube Driver too (not so sure about cheap clones of this... maybe Behringer or TC Electronic? Not certain.).

I think he used those into a Marshall, though, so some kind of Marshally distortion pedal to use as a base wouldn't hurt. Again you can get fairly cheapish Marshally distortion pedals- you don't want anything too high gain, though. A Joyo Hot Plexi would probably work if it's not too bright into your Fender, or a Dark Matter which you mentioned (bear in mind that she's a killer player and also that that's a sponsored video by TC!) or as I said there are several other cheapish ones which I haven't tried.

(I've got a Dark Matter... it's not really a high gain distortion pedal, despite the name. Far as I'm aware it's a soft-clipping pedal, more like an overdrive. It's aimed at a Marshall Plexi-type of tone, and it's pretty good at that into a brighter Black Panel Fender clean tone. (I think that's where its name comes from- it has a darker tone which sounds best into a sparkly Fender.) But there are loads of pedals which do that, more or less.)

Stacking dirt pedals is probably the way to go (and that's what he does, as far as I'm aware), but that gets expensive fast, even with cheap pedals.

You should be able to get away with cheapo delay and chorus pedals too- there's a bunch of cheapish clones of classic analogue delays and choruses from the usual suspects- Joyo, Mooer, Donner, Mosky, Harley Benton etc. If you just want the boost effect from the Echoplex delay, I think Mosky does a cheapo clone for about £25 (but I haven't tried it... or the original it's based on.)

I found this link here which is a pretty decent deep dive into what Eric Johnson used. https://happybluesman.com/how-sound-eric-johnson/ (I'm assuming it's accurate! And according to that link there is a cheaper clone of the Butler Tube Driver from TC Electronic)

lucy_strat

Thanks for the brilliant reply Dave very much appreciated an yep the injury is doing alot better itl never be 100% but I'm super glad to be able to get back to doing stuff again especially learning to play ill check the suggestions out

Nerine

Andy Wood has done a really good vid on YT of how he dials in an Eric Johnson tone. 

JohnCordy

I've got a Dover Drive I'm not using if you're looking for one!

lucy_strat

Thanks Nerine and John I'll check those vids out

Just ordered a Belle Epoch ^_^ first step towards getting setup for it. 

Dave_Mc

lucy_strat said:

Thanks for the brilliant reply Dave very much appreciated an yep the injury is doing alot better itl never be 100% but I'm super glad to be able to get back to doing stuff again especially learning to play ill check the suggestions out

No problem, glad you hear you're doing a lot better

Here's another leftfield option I just thought of- GuitarGuitar is blowing out the 2x12 version of the Marshall DSL40 tube combo for £400. You could easily spend that on pedals, and not be as happy with the results (or not- a lot of this is personal preference). Now- it's not the Marshall EJ used (it's a more modern, higher gain one), and it's a particleboard cab (not sure how much difference that makes- ply or solid wood are usually considered to be "better", but I've never directly compared them in the same size of cab), being a 2x12 it's big and heavy and also the speakers may not be the best (swapping them will again get expensive) but it may well be worth considering. Especially for his higher gain lead and rhythm tones.

The only real big problem being that you're likely to still want some pedals too even if you do get it! An overdrive pedal to boost it doesn't hurt (tubescreamer clone or boss sd1 or similar), and you'd still probably want a delay and chorus pedal.

ElectricXII

The Belle Epoch is a fantastic delay pedal. It does a great job of emulating an Echoplex tape delay, along with its preamp. There's a dip switch inside where you can set the preamp level to taste, and you can use it as a boost, with or without delay. I couldn't live without mine.

Winny_Pooh

I've been pissing about on this quest for a while. Owned a late 60's Marshall and even tried a golden cello and the aforementioned voodoo labs pedal. I didn't like the belle epoch nor zendrive and Eric's recent tones w those pedals on the small boards are rubbish IMO 
Dover drive is worth a punt, I've not owned one

For the lead tone there are two ways I do it:

1- Dirty marshall - in front a Buffalo TD-X (tube driver clone, Past fx do a version too) into an analog delay (currently a Supro but a EHX memory toy was also great) into a chase bliss secret preamp.

2 - Clean amp - transistor treble booster into an ODR-1 with bass control into an analog delay into a TC spark.

Both with a fait bit of top dialled off.

His lead tone is/was a 67/68/69 Marshall plexi on Ten into G12M-25s so the drive at that volume really changes the character of the delay and repeats, hence the clean amp setup having a spark for a bit of compressed grit. 

lucy_strat

Thanks Dave, Electric and Winny really interesting replies I used to have an origin 20 which I sold with a vox ac10c1 to get the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb which has been great but I must admit wouldn't have minded that Marshall still although wound up to do blues breakers stuff it was still hekkin loud on the lowest attenuation setting though

 where as the Fenders been good for low volume with its attenuation although I had an issue with the speaker screws making it sound an undefined mess think I've fixed that now. Two kept breaking loose I re tensioned them n used loctite an it seems OK now all fingers crossed. Worse case I'm gonna have to re drill and use new t nuts and recover the baffle.

Slightly off topic but thought it was interesting while talking amps  

newi123

There are a few vids around with EJ using a single deluxe as a guest with Oz Noy and others. There was another where he went through his pedals for that and I'm sure it was a zen drive into an ac booster - I can't find the vid!

Also check out the Xotic vids on the ac plus - again, it's the stacking of one into another. So light o'drive simulating crunch amp, then adding zen drive / TS pedal on top seems to work.

lucy_strat

Thanks Newi123 I'll check those out an thanks for the advice.

Winny_Pooh

newi123 said:

There are a few vids around with EJ using a single deluxe as a guest with Oz Noy and others. There was another where he went through his pedals for that and I'm sure it was a zen drive into an ac booster - I can't find the vid!

Also check out the Xotic vids on the ac plus - again, it's the stacking of one into another. So light o'drive simulating crunch amp, then adding zen drive / TS pedal on top seems to work.

Had an AC plus. Found it a bit like a KOT or dist plus. Ok for an early acdc sound into a slightly dirty amp.
Too ratty into a clean amp IMO.

JohnPerry

J Rockett Dude V2 will give you a fabulous EJ drive tone at low volumes (gotta be the V2). I just sold one but they're fairly cheap used

lucy_strat

Thanks Whinny an thanks John I'll check that out.

Dave_Mc

lucy_strat said:

Thanks Dave, Electric and Winny really interesting replies I used to have an origin 20 which I sold with a vox ac10c1 to get the Fender Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb which has been great but I must admit wouldn't have minded that Marshall still although wound up to do blues breakers stuff it was still hekkin loud on the lowest attenuation setting though

 where as the Fenders been good for low volume with its attenuation although I had an issue with the speaker screws making it sound an undefined mess think I've fixed that now. Two kept breaking loose I re tensioned them n used loctite an it seems OK now all fingers crossed. Worse case I'm gonna have to re drill and use new t nuts and recover the baffle.

Slightly off topic but thought it was interesting while talking amps  

I haven't tried the Origin but I think it's an older-style, non-master volume type of amp- as you said, you have to turn it up to get distortion, and that's super-loud, even with supposedly "lower power" settings. The DSL is a much more modern style of amp which has a load of cascading preamp tube gain stages- it's designed to distort at either low or high volumes. (It'll sound better turned up a bit to get some power amp drive too, but it will still get preamp distortion at low volumes, unlike the Origin.)

Now... some people don't like the sound of preamp distortion. And it might still be too loud if you need to keep it *really* low (or maybe more accurately, it won't sound that great if you have to keep it really, really low- a bit thin and fizzy). But all I'm saying is, just because the Origin was too loud doesn't necessarily mean the DSL will be. My non-master volume 5 watt tube amps are way louder cranked than my 50 and 100 watt high gain tube amps- which rely on preamp distortion- turned down to sensible home levels.

You're way better at DIY than I am. I can just about swap a speaker if all the screws are in the right place!

lucy_strat

Thanks for taking the time to comment Dave really interesting an I've always been pretty handy with fixing things ^_^ don't give me any maths though haha

Dave_Mc

LOL when it comes to DIY I'm a bit like Homer Simpson when the bowl of cornflakes he was making for Mr Burns went on fire.

Come to think of it I'm a bit like that with maths too!

Emiel

This topic reminded me of this really early (but excellent) Youtube video in which James Santiago of Voodoo Labs recreates Erics tone, first with the exact rig AND then tries to get close to it using a Fender Twin Reverb and some channel switching amp. He pretty much nails it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtI5UWAQXLg

In short, the key is to recreate the (already overdriven) Marshall tone first by using either a preamp or an overdrive pedal that shaves off a bit of high end. Then put in front of that a fat sounding (Tube Driver like) overdrive pedal and a delay pedal, and there it is! Can't hurt to play a bit like Eric too.

lucy_strat

Thanks Emiel I'll check that out been super impressed with the voodoo labs power supply I got  

Think this might be super useful to anyone with a Catalinbread Belle Epoch who's experiencing background noise like a thunderstorm an isn't to familiar with pedals like me.

The shop I got my Belle Epoch from recommended a tourtech 9v psu called a Tourtech TTA-PSU01 9V which caused a noise issue / problem with the Belle Epoch

When I plugged the pedal in it sounded like a thunderstorm with it on, so I decided to return it while I was waiting for that going through I did some reading up, noticed a few people had had issues with a more expensive one spot psu an some hadn't an someone had mentioned the Voodoo Labs Pedal Power x4 transforming the noise which made me take another look at Erics Sweetwater video sure enough there was one of those Psu's upside down.

So this morning I went an picked one up an omg the difference is light an day returned canceled on the pedal an I let the shop know was absolutely silent pretty much bar just the usual hum from my unshielded strat where as with the other psu it was overpowering the guitar sound.

Hopefully that helps someone else if you are having problems worth taking your pedal to a shop n plugging it into a higher end psu fixed my problem anyway obv buy at your own risk etc but worked for me.

Really happy with it now it actually amazed me how much more in the ballpark it got Trademark for me Into my setup even without the other pedals for the clean tone can't wait to get some of the other pedals to.

Really love the tone of the TM Deluxe Reverb with it 

Dave_Mc

lucy_strat said:

Thanks Emiel I'll check that out been super impressed with the voodoo labs power supply I got  

Think this might be super useful to anyone with a Catalinbread Belle Epoch who's experiencing background noise like a thunderstorm an isn't to familiar with pedals like me.

The shop I got my Belle Epoch from recommended a tourtech 9v psu called a Tourtech TTA-PSU01 9V which caused a noise issue / problem with the Belle Epoch

When I plugged the pedal in it sounded like a thunderstorm with it on, so I decided to return it while I was waiting for that going through I did some reading up, noticed a few people had had issues with a more expensive one spot psu an some hadn't an someone had mentioned the Voodoo Labs Pedal Power x4 transforming the noise which made me take another look at Erics Sweetwater video sure enough there was one of those Psu's upside down.

So this morning I went an picked one up an omg the difference is light an day returned canceled on the pedal an I let the shop know was absolutely silent pretty much bar just the usual hum from my unshielded strat where as with the other psu it was overpowering the guitar sound.

Hopefully that helps someone else if you are having problems worth taking your pedal to a shop n plugging it into a higher end psu fixed my problem anyway obv buy at your own risk etc but worked for me.

Really happy with it now it actually amazed me how much more in the ballpark it got Trademark for me Into my setup even without the other pedals for the clean tone can't wait to get some of the other pedals to.

Really love the tone of the TM Deluxe Reverb with it 

Yeah you can definitely get noise problems with digital delays and cheaper PSUs, good to hear the Voodoo Labs sorted it. Glad to hear you're liking the pedal, too