Nicks in fretwire

Littlejonny

I have a cheap strat copy (Westfield) that has been mistreated and has some nicks in the frets where perhaps the guitar has fallen and the string has pushed into the fretwire. It makes bending difficult because the strings catch in the divots.

What’s the best way of fixing this please? I’m tempted to have a go at re-fretting, as this is a skill I’d like to have.

FelineGuitars

At the very least a skim/light dressing of the frets till you get down deep enough to remove the dents

Strangely I usually crown the offending fret(s) first to minimise the size of te dent and therefore minimise the amount of fret height that you would have to dress away on the surrounding frets

If you have a matching gauge of wire you can pull the damaged frets so you have clean undented frets and then level everything to make even 

Or go the whole hog and refret the whole lot , and get to level out the fretboard too into the bargain to give your neck the best renewed lease of life

WezV

What he said.

You can sometimes level them out, sometimes replace just the damaged ones, sometimes need to do the lot.

Littlejonny

Thanks so much. Is there a simple way of working out the fretboard radius, and therefore which type of fretwire is needed?

FelineGuitars

wire gauge not determined by radius but rather in width and height of crown - vernier caliper useful here

but radiusof fingerboard can be read with radius gauge - free printable versions available if you search google

Littlejonny

Thanks so much for your help. The printable radius gauge sounds very useful.

I was thinking pre-radiused fretwire, or is that rubbish?

BillDL

There's nothing wrong with pre-radiused fretwire.  In bulk it comes coiled up and the coil is usually about the right radius for a Strat copy.  You can buy bags of pre-cut pre-radiused lengths of fretwire, and some of them come as a flat long bag that's heat-sealed with each fret in its own compartment.  Some of that fretwire is softer than fretwire bought in coils with a brand name, but for a cheap Westfield guitar it should last a fair length of time unless you play the guitar every day for a few hours over the space of a year.  Somebody else posed the question on here a few weeks ago about whether it would be worth having a cheap electric guitar refretted, and it elicited as many responses for as against.  The actual monetary worth of the guitar isn't always the answer to whether it's "worth" doing or having done.

If you use flat lengths of fretwire it tends to spring back up at the other end as you tap it in and then work your way across the fretboard hammering it home.  Wire that's in a slightly tighter radius than the fretboard or that matches the radius will usually not spring up at the ends as you hammer it in.  Fretwire is measured with four dimensions.  The width of the bead (the actual fret that sits on top of the board), the crown height, the thickness of the tang (the blade that goes down into the slots) and the tang depth (needs to be less than the depth of the slots in the fretboard).  The width and height of the existing frets are easy enough to measure with a vernier guage.  If the frets are worn from playing a lot over the years, take an average height measurement in several frets in different parts of the board.  The end up at the body usually has unworn frets.  You really want to get fret wire that's about the same as already fitted if you are doing a complete refret, otherwise the guitar will feel different.

If you decide to skim all the frets you can use a straight beam with sandpaper stuck to it or a wooden sanding block with the correct radius and sandpaper stuck to it.  Finer sandpaper takes longer but is the safer option until you get the feel for it.  You would then need to recrown the flattened frets to get a curve and an apex back onto them.  You can do this with a triangular file after masking off the fretboard between the frets (takes a bit of practice) or with a more expensive crowning file of the appropriate width.

If you chose to buy fretwire that matches the existing frets and just replace the dented ones, it's likely that you wouldn't get fretwire with exactly the same height.  In this case you would have to get taller wire and then file or sand them down to the same height as the others and recrown the new ones.

If you decided to refret the entire fretboard with new fretwire you would need flat-faced end-cutting pliers to pull the existing frets while minimising wood chip-out.  You would then need to use the truss rod to make the neck absolutely straight.  To knock the new fretwire or precut frets into the slots you would need a soft-faced hammer and probably superglue with one of those fine "whip-tip" nozzles.  It's unlikely that all the frets will be level, so you would need to skim them as above and recrown them.

In all cases you would need a needle file or purpose made fine file to bevel the ends of the new frets and dress off the sharp edges.

If the fretboard is lacquered, sometimes pulling frets will chip the lacquer either side of one or more of the fret slots, in which case you would need some lacquer to touch in the chips.

If you have dressed all the frets or refretted the whole fretboard, you will then either need to cut the string slots in the nut a tiny bit deeper or install a new nut and cut the slots to the correct depths.

You said:

"I’m tempted to have a go at re-fretting, as this is a skill I’d like to have".

You are going to need tools of some description regardless of what method you choose to restore that particular guitar.  Cheap or improvised tools can be made to work, but it's easier to get acceptable results with purpose made ones.  More expensive purpose made tools may not be worth the investment unless you intend to do this kind of thing on several other guitars.  You therefore have a dilemma that takes you back to whether it's "worth it".

There are plenty of YouTube videos showing how to pull frets, clean out the slots, adjust the neck to straighten it, hammer in frets, dress them and recrown them.  On a rosewood fretboard with no edge bunding it's not technically difficult (requiring skill yes, but not actually "difficult"), but it takes practice to make a good job of it and it's a reasonable expectation that the first couple of fret jobs you do might not be quite as good as you would have hoped.  Luthiers that have been doing this for years have it down to a fine art and are able to achieve consistent results.

How deep are these dings, and is the fretboard lacquered maple or rosewood?

Sometimes you can reduce the sharpness of the nicks on the affected frets (usually under the unwound strings) by pressing a bit harder than normal and repeatedly bending the G string (using 4 fingers on the frets that span the nicks) to wear the sharp nicks into shallower and wider depressions to get acceptable playability.  It depends how deep the nicks are though.

Littlejonny

Wow thanks so much for taking the time to write such a comprehensive and informative post! I think I owe it to you to have a go at re-fretting now! 

As it happens, I work in a school as a full time guitar teacher and am surrounded by cheap strat copies, so there are plenty of candidates for fretwork practice. I do have levelling beam, 12” radius block (I should get others but I figured this is the most common radius on cheap guitars) and crowning file. I did a good job on my USA strat, but have had less perfect results on cheaper guitars, which needed a lot more levelling. 

Like I said, I’ve never done a refret but you’ve got to start somewhere, right?

I’d say the dents are about 1mm deep. The guitar has a smooth rosewood fretboard. I think it’s actually potentially a lovely (if heavy) strat. 

BillDL

Aaaah, you should have mentioned this because I now feel that I have patronised you a bit.

Even cheap older electric guitars usually have much better quality rosewood than modern mid-priced ones, and I've found that it's easier to get good results with good wood.  Old rosewood can be a bit britlle as it dries out though, so I often use one of these cheap tools:

https://www.gluedtomusic.com/products/2823/elmer-guitar-fretboard-chip-stopper/

Used in combination with fret pulling pliers (smallish end cutters ground to a flat face in the school's metalwork shop would work), the downward pressure on the wood along either side of the fret does mitigate wood chip-out.

Given that the dents are so deep I hardly think it's worth trying to level all the frets in the hope of going down to the depth of the dents.  You would likely end up with a "fretless blunder" rather than a "fretless wonder".  Personally I would try a partial refret by finding the closest matching fretwire (erring on taller rather than lower) and try replacing the affected frets first.  If it doesn't work out as well as you wished, then you haven't lost anything other than time and a small cost for the frets and you can do a full refret instead.

If you just replace about 3 or 4 frets with dents and the fretwire used is a gnat's whisker taller, you can usually take the bulk of the surplus height off them by first filing along the length of each fret with a very fine flat needle file while using a fret rocker frequently to check progress, then if necessary a shorter fine file just "kissing" the frets running along the length of the neck.  Felt-tip pen on the tops of the frets is a reliable visual means to make sure you don't go too far and file down adjacent good frets.

The secret to achieving a good full refret is being able to get the wood of the fretboard absolutely straight before doing your final levelling.  If it's in a back-bow you will be skimming more height off the frets in the middle of the neck, and if it's in a forward bow you will be skimming more off the frets at each end.  If you were levelling existing frets a notched straightedge would be the best choice so you are making the fretboard straight rather than using the tops of the frets (that are out of whack otherwise you wouldn't be levelling them) as a level guide.  If you're going to be pulling all the frets anyway, then an un-notched straightedge is fine and that would be the time to use a radius block or sanding beam to gently sand out any slight undulations.

You should be able to get acceptable results for minimum outlay by using some of the tools you may already have.  Fret hammers with replaceable and different hardnesses of plastic faces can be fairly expensive.  When I started out I just glued a piece of fairly hard nylon type plastic to the face of a smallish diameter hammer with epoxy resin glue and added some mass to the head by strapping a couple of heavy bits of metal to the other end with a jubilee clip and globs of epoxy.  It did the job, as did using very hard leather on the striking face.

Once you start the job you can obviously start asking specific questions pertaining to the task, but I would say go for it.  By the way, the links above are to Northwest Guitars only because I was already on their site and have bought from them.  There are other suppliers that carry a much more comprehensive range of luthiery tools and sundries over a wider price range, but the ones in the links are perfectly good quality and well priced.

Littlejonny

Thanks that’s amazingly helpful. I had a good look at it today and I was wrong - the dents are about 0.5mm deep. I do have a notched straight edge, but no fret hammer as yet. Once again, thanks for the great advice. I’m going to buy some jumbo fretwire and get cracking…I figure that way I’ve got more scope for correcting errors!?

BillDL

Littlejonny said:

...... I’m going to buy some jumbo fretwire and get cracking…

Perhaps a poor choice of word there

Good luck.  No sense in approaching it with trepidation or procrastinating for fear of making a mistake.  Pulling the first fret or hammering the first fret home is a bit nerve-racking, but you will get the feel of it by the time you've got a few done.  Just watch a few videos of how to go about it and take your time.

Littlejonny

Thanks again BillDL.