KISS... the new ABBA

stickyfiddle

RocknRollDave said:

stickyfiddle said:

This isn't remotely surprising. The real band was due in Dubai in October but cancelled. I have a feeling they struggled to sell tickets because this is the 21st century... 

I remember reading years ago that the reunion concerts in London (possibly Finsbury Park? I forget) back in, I think, the 90’s (?) didn’t sell well, and the plans for the perimeter fences were regularly getting brought in tighter and tighter for the smaller-than-originally expected crowd.

For credibility, this was part of a discussion between various British concert promoters regarding the then-current state of UK festival/ large gig ticket sales in Select magazine.

KISS simply aren’t particularly big in the UK, and I suspect this is echoed in other territories.

Yep, that's how I figure it. They always seemed a very US-centric band.

They did actually play NYE here a couple of years ago - a borderline-lunatic affair with a hilariously big stage and a crowd mostly on hotel room balconies as far as I could tell, and zero atmosphere. The tickets for these were in the £1000s - minimum 3 night all-inclusive stay

And looks like at least some of it was mimed - compare the vocals in these two

Absolutely perfect here
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhorQPIiAEk

And an absolute wobble-fest here...! 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjXO2V1cS0s

hollywoodrox

axisus said:

I actually love the idea of this stuff. I think waaaay in the future, they will find new ways of recreating the stars of today playing on stage for a live experience. I'm not surprised that KISS are in early on this, Gene knows business!

Yeah I kinda like it too , would love a David Lee Roth Band one  & Van Halen 

CaseOfAce

octatonic said:

prowla said:

octatonic said:

Can I have an avatar of me attend so I don't have to bother?

That'd be great - an audience of avatars too!

I've said before that a lot of rock music is more like historical reenactment than an art form.

You are David Hepworth and I claim my £5.

To be honest this avatar malarky is the way all rock is going. I'm convinced in a few hundred years time it'll be like a scene in the Star Wars cantina or Bladerunner where there's a dingy corner of the tech noir bar on some distant planet with a "insert your space credit token in the slot of some the battered, barely used hologram machine" to see long dead 20th century acts doing there famous gigs for your indifferent viewing pleasure.

What's been surprising has been how early in history this has happened with artists still alive (Abba).

EricTheWeary

RocknRollDave said:

stickyfiddle said:

This isn't remotely surprising. The real band was due in Dubai in October but cancelled. I have a feeling they struggled to sell tickets because this is the 21st century... 

I remember reading years ago that the reunion concerts in London (possibly Finsbury Park? I forget) back in, I think, the 90’s (?) didn’t sell well, and the plans for the perimeter fences were regularly getting brought in tighter and tighter for the smaller-than-originally expected crowd.

For credibility, this was part of a discussion between various British concert promoters regarding the then-current state of UK festival/ large gig ticket sales in Select magazine.

KISS simply aren’t particularly big in the UK, and I suspect this is echoed in other territories.

I remember going to see Hayseed Dixie and there was always a huge dip in response from the crowd every time they did a Kiss number because the audience didn't recognise them. Definitely issues with ticket sales last time they played in Brum. But KISS the town hall tour was never going to work either. 

I wouldn't mind seeing the avatar show, I've never seen KISS and seeing them as pensioners seemed even less appealing but this is more on a par with a trip to a Disney ride and less of a gig. 

ICBM

For Kiss to be the new ABBA, they would need to make a comeback album after *forty years* that isn't at all bad - if not quite up there with their best work, at least as good as some of their lesser back-catalogue - and they would need some decent songs in the first place.

octatonic

CaseOfAce said:

octatonic said:

prowla said:

octatonic said:

Can I have an avatar of me attend so I don't have to bother?

That'd be great - an audience of avatars too!

I've said before that a lot of rock music is more like historical reenactment than an art form.

You are David Hepworth and I claim my £5.

Never heard of the guy. Has he said something similar?

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

For Kiss to be the new ABBA, they would need to make a comeback album after *forty years* that isn't at all bad - if not quite up there with their best work, at least as good as some of their lesser back-catalogue - and they would need some decent songs in the first place.

They'd also have to win Eurovision, but I wasn't claiming they were identical in every way...

monquixote

octatonic said:

prowla said:

octatonic said:

Can I have an avatar of me attend so I don't have to bother?

That'd be great - an audience of avatars too!

... and just as pointless.
I dont go to a rock band to hear the original recording.
I want them to play a version of the song, mix it up, improvise.
Not have it be the same thing over and over.

I've said before that a lot of rock music is more like historical reenactment than an art form.
You know those people who dress up in American revolution outfits and run around a field with a plastic sword.

When music doesn't evolve it goes stale and this is the pinnacle of that.
I can almost understand it with a group like Abba.
But a rock band.. why?

Frank Zappa said something quite profound about audiences, or at least one type of audience:

"Most people can't deal with that abstraction--or don't want to. They say: "Gimme the tune. Do I like this tune? Does it sound like another tune that I like? The more familiar it is, the better I like it. Hear those three notes there? Those are the three notes I can sing along with. I like those notes very, very much. Give me a beat.

Not a fancy one. Give me a GOOD BEAT-something I can dance to. It has to go boom-bap, boom-boom-BAP. If it doesn't, I will hate it very, very much. Also, I want it right away-and then, write me some more songs like that--over and over and over again, because I'm really into music."

This is for that sort of audience.

That is not me.

Kiss have never been that band though.

A Kiss show is like a theatrical performance and they've been beefing things up with backing tapes since the 90's

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

They'd also have to win Eurovision, but I wasn't claiming they were identical in every way...

Well, Lordi did . Although actually, Lordi still have better songs.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Philly_Q said:

They'd also have to win Eurovision, but I wasn't claiming they were identical in every way...

Well, Lordi did . Although actually, Lordi still have better songs.

Lordi probably wouldn't exist if not for Kiss, to be fair.

ICBM

Philly_Q said:

Lordi probably wouldn't exist if not for Kiss, to be fair.

True.

What I did find very interesting when I was watching Bob Dylan’s Rolling Thunder Revue is that Dylan claims he was directly inspired by Kiss when he decided to put on white facepaint. I would never have guessed that!

Teetonetal

axisus said:

I actually love the idea of this stuff. I think waaaay in the future, they will find new ways of recreating the stars of today playing on stage for a live experience. I'm not surprised that KISS are in early on this, Gene knows business!

I really hope not.  I can't sum it up eloquently, but I think it's a bleak future for the performing arts if holographic representations of dead stars becomes a thing.

Philly_Q

ICBM said:

Philly_Q said:

Lordi probably wouldn't exist if not for Kiss, to be fair.

True.

What I did find very interesting when I was watching Bob Dylan’s Rolling Thunder Revue is that Dylan claims he was directly inspired by Kiss when he decided to put on white facepaint. I would never have guessed that!

I watched some random arts programme long ago, no idea what it was but imagine a very low rent South Bank Show.  The guest was some fairly well known older pop/rock star, but I really can't remember who.  Maybe Pete Townshend... no, it was Paul Jones!

Anyway, the presenter - a very earnest young man who had probably never listened to a pop or rock song in his life - made a reference to "Dadaist groups like The Kiss".  The guest smiled and said something noncommittal.  But I've always wondered if Gene and Paul ever considered themselves Dadaist.

FarleyUK

I take it none of you saw the 'last ever gig' on Saturday via PPV then...?

I'm a big KISS fan - they have some real bangers, but also some absolute turkeys. You don't go to a KISS gig to listen to the songs, you go for the theatrics, the pyro, the stage show.

I saw them in Brum the last few years and I loved it, TBH. However, I think they always use a backing track on I Was Made for Loving You; that was VERY obvious on the gig Saturday night; either that or autotune.

Kurtis

octatonic said:

prowla said:

octatonic said:

Can I have an avatar of me attend so I don't have to bother?

That'd be great - an audience of avatars too!

... and just as pointless.
I dont go to a rock band to hear the original recording.
I want them to play a version of the song, mix it up, improvise.
Not have it be the same thing over and over.

I've said before that a lot of rock music is more like historical reenactment than an art form.
You know those people who dress up in American revolution outfits and run around a field with a plastic sword.

When music doesn't evolve it goes stale and this is the pinnacle of that.
I can almost understand it with a group like Abba.
But a rock band.. why?

Frank Zappa said something quite profound about audiences, or at least one type of audience:

"Most people can't deal with that abstraction--or don't want to. They say: "Gimme the tune. Do I like this tune? Does it sound like another tune that I like? The more familiar it is, the better I like it. Hear those three notes there? Those are the three notes I can sing along with. I like those notes very, very much. Give me a beat.

Not a fancy one. Give me a GOOD BEAT-something I can dance to. It has to go boom-bap, boom-boom-BAP. If it doesn't, I will hate it very, very much. Also, I want it right away-and then, write me some more songs like that--over and over and over again, because I'm really into music."

This is for that sort of audience.

That is not me.

Frank not a beatles fan either? 

  

ftumch

KISS... the new ABBA

Wash your mouth out!!!

CaseOfAce

ICBM said:

For Kiss to be the new ABBA, they would need to make a comeback album after *forty years* that isn't at all bad - if not quite up there with their best work, at least as good as some of their lesser back-catalogue - and they would need some decent songs in the first place.

Yeah - just think how massive they could have been with some decent songs...!!
   

It's all subjective I know ICBM.. but for me I could name some great Kiss tunes straight off the bat...

Shock Me
Strutter
Lick It Up (go ahead - cancel me!)
Forever
Sure Know Something
Cold Gin
I was Made For Loving you

There's some absolute gems elsewhere... or ..well .. just stick on the Alive album...

Kittyfrisk

Philly_Q said:

ICBM said:

Philly_Q said:

Lordi probably wouldn't exist if not for Kiss, to be fair.

True.

What I did find very interesting when I was watching Bob Dylan’s Rolling Thunder Revue is that Dylan claims he was directly inspired by Kiss when he decided to put on white facepaint. I would never have guessed that!

I watched some random arts programme long ago, no idea what it was but imagine a very low rent South Bank Show.  The guest was some fairly well known older pop/rock star, but I really can't remember who.  Maybe Pete Townshend... no, it was Paul Jones!

Anyway, the presenter - a very earnest young man who had probably never listened to a pop or rock song in his life - made a reference to "Dadaist groups like The Kiss".  The guest smiled and said something noncommittal.  But I've always wondered if Gene and Paul ever considered themselves Dad-ish.

FTFY