You don't half learn stuff watching other bands...

CaseOfAce

Last night saw a (mic-ed up) club band playing a busy club.

Solid bass and drums section with lady singer and the more than capable guitarist was using a reliced telecaster, deluxe reverb and instagram board ( ££££ - but all I heard was clean, crunch and boost for solos - bit of phaser he was using but definitely heard the wah on occasion). 

Why go to all that trouble and expense and stay on the neck pickup of the tele for most of the set. Out front could not hear him - he was completely eaten up in the mix by the bass and drums driving the band.
3rd guitarist this week I've seen doing this. 
As soon as he switched to his bridge...oh ..there you are...

Danny1969

I see this a lot myself too. I tend to use the bridge pickup on my Tele for most things other than clean riffy stuff and clean chords

High frequencies lose their energy quicker over distance than low frequencies so in some venues you need to have things overly bright at the front to avoid a sea of mud further down the room. 

Cirrus

There's every chance whoever was running sound told him to turn his amp right down and that changed the tonal & volume relationship between neck and bridge position. If he was miked up, then it was in the sound guy's power to make him more audible for the majority of the set he was too quiet for. Sounds like he was more interested in clearing the way for the bass and drums (rather than being forced to actually mix), that's not uncommon.

Walking away from that gig thinking the problem is neck pickups doesn't seem like the right lesson to me.

HAL9000

I usually learn that I’m not quite as rubbish as I think I am.

sw67

Watched a band fill a pub with stuff that would have been put in a skip years ago then spend nearly 1.5 hours setting up. Monitors , cables , speakers , old par cans on a t-bar set up in a haphazard way - looked like a car crash waiting to happen but they did sound good. We load in and set up in 20 mins 

fastonebaz

I like to make sure my pickups are evenly balanced with similar/same output so i can toggle between them confident of not having any massive volume drops.  Works for me.  I solo mainly on the neck pickup these days and rhythm on the bridge.  Sounds good to me  

Littlejonny

You’re not suggesting that the bass player’s 8 boutique pedals on a gigrig pedalboard aren’t an essential part of the band’s sound?

The amount of money onstage at club gigs these days is totally crazy. Back in my day, people either had Valvestates or the Fender Stage amps, and on the floor you’d occasionally see a RAT or a Guvnor. But then I suppose everyone was strumming open chords and singing like Liam Gallagher.

Teetonetal

Just to defend the guitarist's pedal board....

I proudly have an Instagram pedal board - but two of the pedals never get used unless there is a problem with my amp. 

I have a 3 channel dirt pedal, with cab sim enabled line out and with that I also have a klon type boost . I have had two gigs in my now long giging history, where the amp has borked during the set. The pedals are my life line, but I hope the 2 people at the front never hear them.

Then depending on the set, I may / may not need Tremolo or chorus.

Otherwise, mixing is an art -  too many sound engineers are  not actually that good at it and not enough musicians pay it enough attention.

Danny1969

I have the opposite of an instagram board. Mine is a chopping board with a load of cheap pedals. My main dirt pedal is a Caline blue sky I brought on here for £25 .. my boost pedal is homemade. 

All you can do is have a reasonable stage sound that’s well balanced , then it’s down to the engineer. My main band has been using the same couple of engineers for 15 years or more so there’s a fair bit of trust. Once you put your ears in that side of things is beyond your control anyway so it’s not something I worry about. 

One thing less experinced bands might be unaware of is how a venues sound will change in Winter once the punters are packed in. This is because in winter everyone wears coats and all that material sucks up the treble … so it’s always a good idea to plan for that 

stickyfiddle

I'm a big fan of having the smallest pedalboard possible to get the job done. Which isn't to say I won't buy a new pedal just for one song if I want to, but also I can't wait for the HX One to be easily available so I can use that as a single "insert signature sound" box to cover about 6 other pedals' functions

I'm also a huge fan of a cerebral approach to a lot of things that a lot of bands pay zero attention to.
- Mixing as @Teetonetal says is crucial, and arrangement feeds into that - you almost never want 2 people playing or singing the same thing unless it's a conscious choice
- Setlist and song choice - picking songs that actually fit together well, flatter the band's strengths, go down well with a crowd AND putting them in an order that works both practically and also for the flow of the set in terms of vibe and energy. 
- And noting that every moment you're on stage is part of the performance (whether you like it or not!). Moments between songs, not noodling, moving quickly between songs, even just a tiny bit of planning who might turn around when to give cues and interactions between band members, etc etc. 

It's remarkable how few bands do any of this and it makes a massive difference. 

midiman1962

stickyfiddle said:

- Setlist and song choice - picking songs that actually fit together well, flatter the band's strengths, go down well with a crowd AND putting them in an order that works both practically and also for the flow of the set in terms of vibe and energy. 
- And noting that every moment you're on stage is part of the performance (whether you like it or not!). Moments between songs, not noodling, moving quickly between songs, even just a tiny bit of planning who might turn around when to give cues and interactions between band members, etc etc. 

It's remarkable how few bands do any of this and it makes a massive difference. 

All this is great advice and cost nothing…

Musicwolf

Having played in various bands, and watched countless others, I've come to the conclusion that what matters is;

1. Stage presence / charisma

2. Set list

3. Balance

4. Singer that can hold a tune

5. Drummer that can keep time

.

.

10. Guitarist

.

.

.

100. Guitar tone

If you get on a stage then you are not a Musician, you are an Entertainer who plays a musical instrument.  Musicians are people who can read a score, are hired by a Musical Director or Producer and who sit in either the Orchestra Pit or studio and play what they are told to.  If you can do that (I can't, I'm not that good) then I admire your skill but that's not the same thing as being in say a four piece band.

hollywoodrox

Instagram pedalboard ??? I thought it was a predictive text error at first. What is it

euan

I think what they would in America call a worship board. 

nickbigsby

After more than 15 years playing live ( cover bands ) I’ve only just got the bridge pickup thing !! 

#ashamed rhythm guitarist !

Teetonetal

midiman1962 said:

stickyfiddle said:

- Setlist and song choice - picking songs that actually fit together well, flatter the band's strengths, go down well with a crowd AND putting them in an order that works both practically and also for the flow of the set in terms of vibe and energy. 
- And noting that every moment you're on stage is part of the performance (whether you like it or not!). Moments between songs, not noodling, moving quickly between songs, even just a tiny bit of planning who might turn around when to give cues and interactions between band members, etc etc. 

It's remarkable how few bands do any of this and it makes a massive difference. 

All this is great advice and cost nothing…

This is very, true.

The band I am currently in, is a 10 piece party band. 

We really don't rehearse the songs, we can all play them.

What we do spend a lot of time rehearsing is the changes between songs. We often play blocks of songs that either run into each other, or only have a pause for the count in ... The nearer the end of the set, the more songs we string together. Once people are drunk and dancing, they will keep going unless you stick a massive 5 min pause in whilst the guitarist noodles rock riff A - at which point they all bugger off to the bar and you have to rebuild.

Whenever an instrument change is required, it is planned for the singer to speak and the text is always planned.

It's pretty slick and I think elevates the band. As mentioned by @Musicwolf ; at this point we are entertainers, not musicians, and our "show" needs to be as entertaining as possible. 5 min gaps for wondering what comes next is not (often) entertaining....

midiman1962

Teetonetal said:

midiman1962 said:

stickyfiddle said:

- Setlist and song choice - picking songs that actually fit together well, flatter the band's strengths, go down well with a crowd AND putting them in an order that works both practically and also for the flow of the set in terms of vibe and energy. 
- And noting that every moment you're on stage is part of the performance (whether you like it or not!). Moments between songs, not noodling, moving quickly between songs, even just a tiny bit of planning who might turn around when to give cues and interactions between band members, etc etc. 

It's remarkable how few bands do any of this and it makes a massive difference. 

All this is great advice and cost nothing…

This is very, true.

The band I am currently in, is a 10 piece party band. 

We really don't rehearse the songs, we can all play them.

What we do spend a lot of time rehearsing is the changes between songs. We often play blocks of songs that either run into each other, or only have a pause for the count in ... The nearer the end of the set, the more songs we string together. Once people are drunk and dancing, they will keep going unless you stick a massive 5 min pause in whilst the guitarist noodles rock riff A - at which point they all bugger off to the bar and you have to rebuild.

Whenever an instrument change is required, it is planned for the singer to speak and the text is always planned.

It's pretty slick and I think elevates the band. As mentioned by @Musicwolf ; at this point we are entertainers, not musicians, and our "show" needs to be as entertaining as possible. 5 min gaps for wondering what comes next is not (often) entertaining....

@Musicwolf makes some great points.
My duo partner and I did a gig in a tiny pub yesterday.
backing track went through a powered monitor and we both used Marshall AS50 amps which vocals guitar and keys went through. I stuck a Behringer tube amp modeller in line to give me a nice “wasp in a jar” lead sound on which there were no complaints made.(I was playing a squire strat through £30 legato wireless plugs.
At one point my korg micro Xl keyboard fell on the floor!
folks were dancing on the tables …
we are almost in the “variety “ game these days.
nb not all gigs are like this !

S56035

What's an Instagram board?

stickyfiddle

S56035 said:

What's an Instagram board?

When it's full of trendy shit all immaculately laid out

Like this... 


As opposed to a bunch of stuff on a board with little planing, like this...  (genuinely one of my old ones - it worked very well!)

slacker

The revelation for me is those metal things on a guitar. First set the amp tone too bright and turn the knob down to half. Next sound check with the volume on half.

Now, sound people will get upset at this and for the reason for doing so, which is that at am. or semi pro level, most sound people are incompetent.

If there are monitors often what comes out of the monitor isn't what's coming out of foh.

To give some balance most band's are too loud. In my band we did a year practicing at home at crazy low volumes. So when we use a rehearsal room it really isn't loud. But it's louder than when we started,so it's a joy to play 'loud'. I often ask people to turn up.

The art is to set a stage sound where everyone is happy. Angle the speakers at your head away from others and make sure your mix is just that. Bassists and drummers often want those two in the stage mix with a little lead vocal. I played bass in a band and the cellist complained I was too loud, I replied that I wasn't the rocket scientist who put the cello 2ft in front of my 200w valve stack.

Once the stage mix is balanced the guitarist stops scooping the minds and turns down the 100w stack, the sound person can reinforce the sound eq out treble or bass from some instruments and get on with the job of looking bored.





 

relic245

Things I've learned from watching pub rock bands. 

Having a front person with a bit of charisma will get you further than having a front person who can sing great but no charisma. 

Equally the rest of the band having great energy will get you further than having a band of more talented musicians who are boring or have bad energy. 

Could be summed up as you don't have to be great because no one knows anyway. Turn up, have fun and remember that you are there to entertain people and not satisfy your own ego.