Learning jazz guitar journal

willo

So I am going to document my attempts to learn jazz. I've found journalling a really useful tool for keeping myself honest and also reflecting on what I've learnt.

My background is almost exclusively rock and pop playing and recording since I was a kid. Jazz has always fascinated me because:

1. There is often a broader palette of notes used, and players like Bill Frisell really make these extra notes and intervals click with me,
2. I love the way that jazz solos in particular will imply the underlying chord progression, often more clearly than my home turf of rock and pop, and
3. Many jazz guitarists are capable of playing fully solo, live, in a way that doesn't typically lend itself to rock guitar harmony/melody.

I did an online video lesson today to start things and it was humbling. The teacher was great and the format worked well (video call online). But it really shone a light on the various crutches, blags, and bluffs I've developed over the past 30 years. Ultimately I found myself struggling to do what are fairly basic tasks for jazz (a couple of scales, a simple lick, familiar chords but in new positions). I honestly sounded like a flat out beginner, never touched a guitar before

But this is why I am doing these lessons and following this process - to learn something new. I do not need to pay someone to validate that I can do what I already know I can do - this is about doing something different and that implies I will not be great from Day 1. As awkward as it was, I am not disheartened and, in fact, I am excited.

So onwards and upwards, I'll keep reporting back.

digitalkettle

Subscribed!

Brad

willo said:

Ultimately I found myself struggling to do what are fairly basic tasks for jazz (a couple of scales, a simple lick, familiar chords but in new positions). I honestly sounded like a flat out beginner, never touched a guitar before

But this is why I am doing these lessons and following this process - to learn something new. I do not need to pay someone to validate that I can do what I already know I can do - this is about doing something different and that implies I will not be great from Day 1. As awkward as it was, I am not disheartened and, in fact, I am excited.

So onwards and upwards, I'll keep reporting back.

I know the feeling all too well It's like you're having to relearn the guitar all over again and in many respects, you are.

You sound in a good place with your current situation which is really positive. Keep hold of this when times are tough, because they will be, but it's worth it.

You'll receive a lot of conflicting (if well intentioned) information along the way. Some of my favourite guitarists/educators have opposing views to learning. Keep an open mind to different approaches, one way of looking at something may not initially make sense or seem helpful, but further down the line will be massively beneficial.  Without wishing to stand on your teacher's toes at all, I recommend the following:

1. Learn to do the simple things well - this gets overlooked so much, because it's actually quite difficult and most people give up.

2. Learn the fretboard - You can make progress of course, but you'll hit the wall at some point. I should know!

3. Transcribe - Learning solos is a great way of getting some language under the fingers. Make sure you can see how it reflects on the fretboard - is it an arpeggio, digital pattern, chromatic enclosure etc? Transcribing/playing along with solos is a brilliant way to get the rhythm and feel going too.

4. Be creative. It's easier said than done, but start improvising as much as you can. You need to join the ear and fingers though, so every exercise make sure you sing at the same time as playing. For example, if you're working on a tune, play the chords and sing the 3rd of each chord. Play the 3rd and sing the roots etc. Sing everything you play and gradually you'll start to play the things you sing.

5. Have fun! Keep us posted with how you get on     

Cranky

“I am not disheartened and, in fact, I am excited.”

Well put.  I know the feeling and look forward to more in this thread.  Congrats on getting started!

joeW

Welcome to the journey - it’s one I started on a few years ago and it’s a lot of fun.   Other than that - what @Brad said is pretty much everything I’d have said, but more eloquently 

willo

Thank you everyone for the support! And yes @Brad, it really does feel like relearning the instrument again! I can already tell I will have some battles with my ego along the way; but to go to a guitar teacher and learn what I already know would be like going to a language school to learn English.

I love your other tips too. I will try to incorporate those into my regular practice (I need to put a bit more structure into my time). I did singing lessons years ago (rock and roll dream) and found that it made me a better guitarist than it did singer

willo

Just a note to myself but, whilst it has been hard to find time to play this Christmas, the whole GAS thing is nonsense.

Still playing through my Helix because, ultimately, I'm more willing to compromise the final few % of tone, than I am my family's peace & quiet/sleep. So, modellers it is. 

In the New Year I hope to work out whether the best modelling solution for me is a Helix, or a Tonemaster or UAFX pedal + some pedals. I suspect that the Helix will still win out because it lets me cover a wide range of tones that I need, whether that's for the covers band I play in; the 80s-inspired originals project; or this sojourn into jazz.

I do want to create as simple a set up so that I'm not needing to fiddle with settings, I'm not over-thinking things, and I'm not endlessly online window shopping when I can't play. But the Helix is a pretty solid bet all round and a good solution to all of the above - at least for home play (which is 95% of my playing these days).

duotone

I bought a Hal Leonard Jazz Guitar Fake Book a few months ago to try & improve my sight reading. No guitar tab, so it forces me to sight read: https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/252407/hal-leonard-jazz-guitar-fake-book-volume-1

I found a nice Jazz tone I use to practice with from Line6 Customtone: https://line6.com/customtone/tone/4643889/

Good Luck!

willo

Thanks @duotone, I had a a look at that book - looks a bit beyond me at the moment but a good one for the future. I need to check out that tone too, that's nice, thank you.

LESSON TWO

I had my second lesson earlier this week. I'm going with fortnightly lessons because, I know from experience, that my life gets busy and, if I start to struggle keeping pace with weekly lessons, I generally don't recover. So I'm going slow with the aim of increasing if possible.

The theme of today's lesson was continuing to break down some of the scales behind 'Autumn Leaves', why those scales, and what notes are contained in those scales. It is very much theory, and it had surprised me how little I actually play in these sessions - but then, I am there to learn about theory. Not technique, at least not right now (although I did get a few pointers on thumb positioning which was helpful).

The theory learning is really interesting to me. I have never analysed a song so deeply before improvising over it (and I've been jamming and improvising for about 20 years).

I feel really excited and enthused by the knowledge - admittedly basic knowledge to many - that I am learning. Today, walking to work, I was going through and testing myself on the intervals and notes of the G major scale, building chords off that, as well as the minor scale and the pentatonics and it was like things were just unlocking in my mind: the underlying structures of the things that I play was becoming clear.

I know that is basic to many but it is something I have been refusing to face up to for a long time. It was really nice to see that all slotting into place.

Overall, my teacher is promoting an approach of going deep, rather than broad with my learning. Which makes sense for me. Everything that we did in our lesson today would be covered in about a million YouTube lessons but if I were self-teaching, I would get bored, search around, start learning about a C mixolydian Hungarian melodic minor or something instead. He's keeping me on track and, by moving slowly, I'm actually moving more quickly than ever.

I have been continuing to adapt rock/pop/R&B songs into guitar instrumentals and have been working on 'Nikes' by Frank Ocean. It's not jazz, more like a NIN/Portishead freakout. But I was also able to now apply the theory of why adding certain notes into the bass loop was making the whole vibe shift, without going out of tune. Still trying to work out if that's remotely suitable for the monthly acoustic-centric music night I join

TAKEAWAYS

So yes, that's all good. Nothing major I think I can share with you except my main takeaways which are:

- Theory can be exciting and rewarding
- Learning deeply, rather than broadly, is how I am making progress now
- Investing in something (in this case lessons) makes me more committed than browsing free videos

Catthan

may I recommend  #6 that as soon as you get a 12bar blues and 1 standard worked out, you start going to jazz jams and bravely offer up to sit in when either tune is called.
It's an often overlooked aspect of jazz education outside of big music schools/ institutions/ conservatories or places like NY in the 40s that naturally provide a community of peers and a scene.
For the rest of us outside of such environments  that don't get to 'live it' 24-7, we need to find that scene and it typically starts at the local jazz jam. 
I wish I had a bit more nerve to go more often when I was going through jazz education but I had gone from being a decent rock guitarist to a beginner (felt like 'bad') jazzer and I always felt too embarrassed; i think I was young enough to care.
I do have this recurring thought though that when I retire, I'll spend my time playing solo jazz guitar in the local bistro for a pints and some crisps.

To me, solo jazz guitar ala Joe Pass is the ultimate expression of freedom, creativity and polyphony (chord solos etc).

Apols for the long personal reflection. Best of luck on the journey!

Catthan

Another piece of wisdom bestowed to me by an educator during a seminar when I was asking for modern chops and tricks to navigate turnarounds etc was "just play". I.e. it's important to just spend time with the instrument going through the material you already know in a less structured way, not practicing a specific thing. e.g. sit on the tv and play blues or a melody you enjoy

DefaultM

With the lesson I had a similar first one in music college. We played together with him doing a rock progression and me improvising over it, he said I was really good and that I was playing things he couldn't technically. Then he put a sheet in front of me and asked me to play it, I think it was standard notation of some really basic entry level jazz. 
I had a go, looked up at him when I was done and he was stood with his mouth open in silence. I asked him how it went and he said "I'll be honest, it was pretty dreadful" haha.

duotone

No problem @willo ;
Good luck with the lessons!

willo

So, logging back after 6 or so lessons. It's been a challenge fitting everything around life but I feel like I've learnt a bit. I've been able to come up with some really nice arpeggios to play through the changes.

On the other hand, I feel my playing has gone a bit backwards, because I'm trying to think, rather than feel, my way through things (I don't mean when I'm trying to play something jazz, I just mean any normal rock improv). I remember reading that when you're learning a skill you go through four levels:

Unconsciously incompetent - you're crap but you don't know it
Consciously incompetent - you're crap, and you know it
Consciously competent - you're good but you have to really think it through
Unconsciously competent - you're excellent and you don't need to think about it

Since going back to the basics in these lessons, I'm somewhere between 2 and 3. But I know this is how skills learning works for me.

--

My major challenge is time and energy. I'm spread thin across quite a few things right now (musical and otherwise), so I don't know for certain if I'll be keeping up with the lessons or having a pause. 

MagicPigDetective

Interesting to read about your progress

I’ve started on this journey recently. I’m working my way through this https://www.fundamental-changes.com/book/fundamental-changes-in-jazz-guitar-an-in-depth-study-of-major-ii-v-i-soloing-in-bebop/. 

As the title says, it focuses on 2-5-1 progression, and the scales to play for each chord. After a week or two, I can do a basic solo based on this, which is very pleasing, and I can see the patterns forming and connection with other things. 

Also learning Autumn Leaves.. a beautiful chord progression. 

MagicPigDetective

How did you get on @willo ? Finding time and energy is always a challenge…. I have productive burts then periods of low activity 

I’m learning a few standards. Last night I had a jam with another guitarist (an excellent jazz musician) and a trumpeter… I played Blue Bossa and Satin Doll, which I had learnt the chords for earlier that day. Well, I did well I think, I held my own and it sounded great. My mate the trumpeter wants me to busk with him and eventually play gigs… so need to learn a few standards quickly. 

As for soloing, that’s a long term project… I’m starting to make connections though. I can solo over the changes in Blue Bossa, changing scales.

 I’ve downloaded Ireal Pro which is a very handy tool. 

It’s like learning a new language ..challenging and intimidating, but very satisfying when you get it right. 

willo

MagicPigDetective said:

How did you get on @willo ? Finding time and energy is always a challenge…. I have productive burts then periods of low activity 

I’m learning a few standards. Last night I had a jam with another guitarist (an excellent jazz musician) and a trumpeter… I played Blue Bossa and Satin Doll, which I had learnt the chords for earlier that day. Well, I did well I think, I held my own and it sounded great. My mate the trumpeter wants me to busk with him and eventually play gigs… so need to learn a few standards quickly. 

As for soloing, that’s a long term project… I’m starting to make connections though. I can solo over the changes in Blue Bossa, changing scales.

 I’ve downloaded Ireal Pro which is a very handy tool. 

It’s like learning a new language ..challenging and intimidating, but very satisfying when you get it right. 

Congratulations - that sounds great and I'm checking out that app now.

Me? It's not really progressed to be honest. We had a whole host of 'life things' happening at the same time as I was starting to learn and it just meant I had a lot less mental capacity to work on things. As I result, I focused my time playing and learning on rock, which is still the music I love most. I have taken concepts that I learnt forward though, so I'm using arpeggios more, and playing through different scales over progressions. And I'm still working through individual compositions and instrumental solo versions of popular songs.

I have found it worthwhile and I'd love to pick it back up one day but I had to be honest with myself and the time and headspace I had!

guitarmangler

It’s very difficult learning something ’new’ as it takes time, is hard, we have to think about what we’re doing and often the things we play sound just sound rubbish to begin with! 

Try and remember that this is what happened when we first started playing and try to be kind to yourself. 

When learning something new, I’ll try a small ‘thing’ and repeat it lots for very short spaces of time. In 6 months, I’ve hopefully got it under my fingers and in my lack of brain, and it doesn’t feel like I’ve tortured myself too much !

GuyBoden

You need to listen and sing along to the Jazz songs you love.

Sing the phrases you like from the recordings or whistle them a lot during the day.

Then find these phrases on your guitar.

Jazz, like all music, is not learned from books or web pages, it's from careful listening of the music you love.

duotone

MagicPigDetective said:

How did you get on @willo ? Finding time and energy is always a challenge…. I have productive burts then periods of low activity 

I’m learning a few standards. Last night I had a jam with another guitarist (an excellent jazz musician) and a trumpeter… I played Blue Bossa and Satin Doll, which I had learnt the chords for earlier that day. Well, I did well I think, I held my own and it sounded great. My mate the trumpeter wants me to busk with him and eventually play gigs… so need to learn a few standards quickly. 

As for soloing, that’s a long term project… I’m starting to make connections though. I can solo over the changes in Blue Bossa, changing scales.

 I’ve downloaded Ireal Pro which is a very handy tool. 

It’s like learning a new language ..challenging and intimidating, but very satisfying when you get it right. 

@MagicPigDetective ;;
How are you getting on with iReal Pro? I’m just looking it up and it looks really useful.

Edit: iReal Pro purchased last night. Cheers for your help MagicPigDetective!