Deep-bodied small acoustics

thomasross20

Has anybody here tried a deep body, say 4.8" lower bout which tapers thinner as you get closer to the fretboard? 

I guess a classic would be the L-00 or Bourgeois LDBO style guitar. 

I find a deeper body can be a bit less ergonomic, but I'm wondering if e.g. an OO 12-fret short scale (because the hand reaches out less) is as ergonomic as a 25.5" OM with 3.25" body depth. 

I like the extra grunt that a deeper body gives, but only to the extent that it is still playable

drofluf

This https://milsomguitars.weebly.com/deep-bodied-triple-o-19.html goes from 4.5 to 3.75 but is a 14 fret and is obviously OOO. So a little larger than you suggest. But compared to my 12 fret OO it’s  definitely louder and has more bass. 

The body feels a little bigger than the OO and it feels bigger due to the longer neck. 

Tannin

Are you sure you are not really an Australian, @thomasross20? Deeper bodies on mid-size guitars is not something we even think about over here, it's just the way we always make them.  And no, they are not difficult to hold or play.

I have ... um ... counts on fingers ... five small-body guitars and four of them have deep bodies. I'm still a bit surprised that I didn't order my Brook with a deep body. In the end with that one I decided to just let them do what they do in their own way, trusting their expertise. It should arrive in two or three months. 

Most guitars taper in depth towards the fretboard end. In fact I cannot think of any which don't. All of mine (past and present) certainly do. 

Some builders do a taper across the body as well This strikes me as an excellent idea.

bertie

subjective  -   and not linear,  not all deep bodies = (noticebly) better bass, 

people over think all this bollocks,  just get on and play the fucking things

Stratavarious

I would have thought wearing a T shirt vs a jumper when playing would have the same ergonomic effect.

Just try loads.  I found a GS Mini + hit a nice size/ergonomic point and has a sweet full sound and a lot easier to move around with on stage. I don’t even know if it would be considered ‘deep’ but it does not look or sound shallow.

thomasross20

That's funny about t shirt Vs jumper.

I have discovered I'm not into "loud" but a bit of bass is appreciated. 

I think the ones that gradient across the strings, it's a Manzer wedge (Manzer previously of Larrivee)

deejayen

I have a feeling the Breedlove Concert sized guitars might be a bit deeper than normal for that size of guitar.  There's probably more to it all than that - I think they adjust the thicknesses of the tops and backs to complement each other and to tune the guitar's dynamic response.  I also seem to remember reading that the soundhole diameter was matched in some way to the body depth.

I also had the impression that some of the Lowdens might have fairly deep bodies, but I've just checked and the S sized guitars don't seem particularly deep.  Lowden does mention that the S is tuned for deeper bass than you'd expect from that size of guitar, but I think that's achieved with optimised bracing rather than simply body depth.

My LG-2 has quite a pronounced wedge shape from tail to heel.  I bought a clamp-on mic holder for it, but it didn't want to know- it just couldn't get a grip!

thomasross20

bertie I hear you re not all have more bass and about just playing the things lol

Tannin, I was unaware deep bodied smaller guitars was a thing down under! Very wise to just let Brook do their thing...

I think a deeper body does add a bit more "growl," especially to a mahogany guitar. Those snarly mids really get hairy, in a good way. I gotta be careful, though - as I've discovered it's not just big-bodied guitars that set my right ear off (it gets sore and starts ringing...), it's also my OMs when played pretty loudly. Hence prior text re not caring about loudness but preferring balance and a general all-round good voice.

Tannin

thomasross20 said:

 I gotta be careful, though - as I've discovered it's not just big-bodied guitars that set my right ear off (it gets sore and starts ringing...), it's also my OMs when played pretty loudly. Hence prior text re not caring about loudness but preferring balance and a general all-round good voice.

Ahh, can I see an all-hardwood guitar in your future? Hard tops are quieter by nature. Taylor make a lovely all-Koa model; Cole Clark all-Blackwood guitars are a mixed bag but the right ones are superb; My Huon Pine Angel is wonderful (technically a softwood but hard enough and heavy enough to behave like a hardwood; yew is similar); people sing the praises of all-mahogany guitars though I have to admit the small number I have played have been pretty awful plunk-plunk-twang instruments in the Dustbowl tradition. (I'm sure there are better ones with a nice voice, but I've not met any such. A couple of the mahoganyoid Martins I played were  downright dreadful.)

thomasross20

Actually I wasn't into Cole Clark but a few recently caught my ear... 

Tannin

^ You can play (for example) a Gibson and have a pretty good idea of how most other Gibsons will sound. Ditto Martin, Taylor, Maton, Guild - most makes have a distinctive house sound which they make variations around. Cole Clark, not so much. They vary a great deal from model to model. Partly this is because of all the many, many different timbers they use. But also, just because that's the way they make 'em. 

I don't think I've ever played a bad Cole Clark (I'm talking present-day Cole Clark, not the weird stuff the company made under its old management back in the early days) but I've played plenty I didn't like. I've also played lots I thought were OK, quite a few I thought were better than decent, several that were downright excellent, and two that were just gems. (I bought one of them. Still not quite sure why I didn't buy the other one - I went home and thought it over and by the time I checked back with the shop they had sold it.)

I don't think you can predict which ones you will like based on the models or even the timbers, you just have to play each one. The high-end Three Series and Master Grade models are more likely to ring bells (mine is one of those) but the other really lovely one I played was a modest 2 Series all-Blackwood Angel, about $2600 (£1400). Grrrr ... Should have bought it.

Easy for me to say this stuff living here where I can walk into any half-decent music shop anywhere and be sure they will have a range of Cole Clarks on the floor (or else Matons, or quite often both). Over where you are they are quite uncommon (and cost more) so bumbling across one you love isn't so easy.

Next time you are passing through, drop in and try my Huon Pine Angel. I'll put the kettle on.

Whitecat

I think the Yamaha LS body size kinda fits that profile… slight taper, but deeper than its contemporaries…

thomasross20

I'll look out for those master series and thanks for the cuppa invite

WafflesOnHorseback

I have a SC H13 which is 5" lower bout and sounds great and lovely to play.

thomasross20

@WafflesOnHorseback - a dread is about the same depth at 5" - you reckon it specifically feels the same to play as a dread or easier due to 13 fret join (and potentially lower scale length)? I would really love to try something like this. Again, due to my sensitive right ear, I've noticed anything too loud, with too much air push or bass, can agitate it. What I hear from online vids anyway, is a really vibrant mid-range from these deeper bodies.

mgaw

bertie said:

subjective  -   and not linear,  not all deep bodies = (noticebly) better bass, 

people over think all this bollocks,  just get on and play the fucking things

Don’t they just

thomasross20

I think it's all really interesting TBH and no reason you can't think on things and play

WafflesOnHorseback

thomasross20 said:

@WafflesOnHorseback - a dread is about the same depth at 5" - you reckon it specifically feels the same to play as a dread or easier due to 13 fret join (and potentially lower scale length)? I would really love to try something like this. Again, due to my sensitive right ear, I've noticed anything too loud, with too much air push or bass, can agitate it. What I hear from online vids anyway, is a really vibrant mid-range from these deeper bodies.

Hey Thomas, it's really easy to play and has a very characterful sound. I think there was a member on here trying to sell one recently at a good price! I love the H13 dearly.

Check these out for an idea of what it offers - 

Alterlifeson

Just measured my Yamaha LS6 as they then to be filed in this catagory

90mm right up by the neck joint increasing to 120mm deep by the bottom strap bottom.

bertie

thomasross20 said:

bertie I hear you re not all have more bass and about just playing the things lol
 

I - thought - was always on the want for a deep body,  assuming it was the holy grail,  until I played that OM and was astounded how a "thin" (relatively) body could push out so much balanced bass -  enough for my ears anyway.  So it can be just about body depth, can it.................cant it ?

 So the hunt/perceived need, for me is now not #1 requirement

thomasross20

Bertie you hit an important point for me m
Balanced bass. 
Not overpowering. Same with trebles. 
I think that's why I like mahogany. 

But also yep... I really want to try an OO (deep body or not - I'm becoming quite the fan of lower bridge placement on 12 fret guitars) but my "slim" OMs have all the tone I need - my requirement now is to, as you say, just play. Too much Gassing