Spark control X control pedal - no flipping looper still arghhhh

hollywoodrox

Ok we already have a wireless foot controller ,but we dearly needed a looper function in the software /foot controller .  So we get a new controller but no looping  arghhhhhh. Why do they not listen 

pt22

I wonder if it's a decision around hardware capability. For instance, if the software is run on a low-end phone or mobile device, you don't get all the options within your signal chain on at the same time due to processing power. I wonder if the looper just blows that out of the water for all but the latest tech, and Spark feels that would be a net loss for most of their customers and wouldnt be good messaging?

Just a thought. 

DartmoorHedgehog

I suspect the reason they haven't added a looper to the Spark is the amount of memory available for the buffer rather than lack of processing power.  It has delay effects, and a looper is really just a really long delay so I don't think the processor is the problem.

Shame, because I'd like a looper as well - I think it would make a really useful addition to a practice amp.

EDIT: @pt22 the sound generation software of the Spark isn't running on the phone.  It does use the phone to play backing tracks (and the utterly useless auto-accompaniment gimmick) but otherwise the phone app is purely used for configuring the Spark's internal modeller.

hollywoodrox

I’d expect the looper to be built into the app ,like you said it would be too much faff for the hardware . They could even license or buy an existing app & make it work with the footswitch.

i guess it’s like pt22 said though it would have to work on a lot of low to high end phones & people with low end would be left out 

DartmoorHedgehog

I didn't think any of the amp or effects modelling was part of the phone app - otherwise you wouldn't be able to use the amp without the app (I only ever use the app if I want to edit a patch).  For the Spark to send the guitar signal to the phone to be processed then back to the amp would have far too much latency to be useable I reckon (it's a bluetooth connection, fine for sending control positions or patch data, or for playing backing tracks, but would be terrible for any live sound).

hollywoodrox

That’s right all the processing is done in the unit ,but  other stuff is handled via the app, eg chord play along etc  . It would be so useful if they could just say use an existing program like loopy with the Bluetooth and route the audio so you could use it for looping 

pt22

I remember an Andertons vid where Lee & Pete born had iPhones with different capabilities for enabled effects via the app. Their insinuation was that it was the phone difference rather than a device difference, but as much as I like the channel they aren’t always 100% accurate. 

DartmoorHedgehog

hollywoodrox said:

 It would be so useful if they could just say use an existing program like loopy with the Bluetooth and route the audio so you could use it for looping 

I don't claim to be an expert on wireless protocols but I'm pretty sure a bluetooth link wouldn't have low enough latency to do that without having a horrible laggy feel.  Playing backing tracks etc over bluetooth is fine because you don't notice the lag - you're playing along with what you can hear, when you hear it, not when the phone plays it. 

To exaggerate the problem, imagine the bluetooth link had a 10 second delay.  Playing a backing track would be fine - you'd press play on the phone and 10 seconds later it would start playing on the Spark.  Then you would just play along with it as normal and not care about the delay.  But if your guitar signal was routed via the phone so we could use a phone-based looper app, then when you pluck a string the signal would have to go from the amp to the phone then back again before you hear it - so with our fictional ridiculously slow bluetooth that could be 20 seconds before you hear the note - obviously unplayable.  Real-world bluetooth latency will only be in the couple of hundred milliseconds, but that is still enough to make a pretty terrible experience with live sound.

So I think any additional effects would have to run directly on the Spark hardware - and I suspect there isn't enough memory for a decent length looper buffer.  If it were doable I'm sure they would have done it by now.

But I'd love to be proven wrong - a looper would be very useful.

DartmoorHedgehog

pt22 said:

I remember an Andertons vid where Lee & Pete born had iPhones with different capabilities for enabled effects via the app. Their insinuation was that it was the phone difference rather than a device difference, but as much as I like the channel they aren’t always 100% accurate. 

If the effects were part of the app then you wouldn't be able to use the effects without the app running. Using the app may be smoother on a better phone but once the settings are sent to the amp it shouldn't make any difference (you can turn the phone off at that point).

The auto-accompaniment part of the app is running on the phone and the experience probably does vary (from utterly useless to just not very good ) depending on the phone power.

hollywoodrox

The workaround I have seen is just to have loopy playing through the iPads own speaker 
  Which isn’t really much good.

DartmoorHedgehog

hollywoodrox said:

The workaround I have seen is just to have loopy playing through the iPads own speaker 
  Which isn’t really much good.

So is that just picking up the sound through the iPad's microphone then?

hollywoodrox

DartmoorHedgehog said:

hollywoodrox said:

The workaround I have seen is just to have loopy playing through the iPads own speaker 
  Which isn’t really much good.

So is that just picking up the sound through the iPad's microphone then?

I can’t recall , it’s done with the xsonic pedal but looks a bit of a faff 
on looking at one video ,yes the built in mic 

https://youtu.be/qZ9Euux5lRE?si=Ad0fI7ytT4G6O_eN

hollywoodrox

Another complex setup 

 I suppose the best thing would be to have an fx send receive  to plug a normal looper pedal in 
  https://youtu.be/IcIa55u90MM?si=WHbUaiCuCob-iSvh

DartmoorHedgehog

I suppose there's no reason why PG couldn't do something similar in their app, but using the phone/tablet microphone is a bit of a hack (it would loop every sound in the room rather than just the guitar).  Seems to work reasonably well in that video though.  Just plugging a looper pedal in front of the Spark would be a lot less faff though.

DartmoorHedgehog

hollywoodrox said:

I suppose the best thing would be to have an fx send receive  to plug a normal looper pedal in 
 

That is a point actually - looper pedal in front of the amp would only work if you didn't need to change patches for the parts. I only ever use a looper for acoustic so hadn't considered that  

Otherwise you do need an fx loop, which obviously the Spark doesn't have. 

hollywoodrox

Fx loop might be easier to implement though