Another pickup help thread

TDubs

After reading another post on here, it reminded me that I was also curious about the pickup that has been retrofitted into my acoustic prior to my ownership.

Pics here. Anyone have a clue please?

https://imgur.com/gallery/Nzs5azG

Winny_Pooh

Lift the saddle and take a pic

TDubs

Winny_Pooh said:

Lift the saddle and take a pic

Here you go @Winny_Pooh ;

Winny_Pooh

@ICBM ;

ICBM

I don’t know, but it’s an absolutely awful fitting job. I would be looking at getting it re-done properly with the correct length saddle and a deep enough slot.

TDubs

Thanks for your input @ICBM @Winny_Pooh ;

BillDL

That looks like a fairly shallow bridge, so I don't know how much deeper you could make the saddle slot in order to accommodate the transducer or a new piezo strip AND have enough of the saddle down into the slot to keep it upright.

Personally I would remove the piezo pickup from the slot, have those wooden fillers cut out, and have the saddle replaced with a proper through saddle that would have to be made from scratch from a longer than normal length of bone.  With the piezo transducer out of the saddle slot it might then be deep enough to keep the saddle nice and upright.  Piezo strips don't work very well if the saddle is leaning forwards, and it certainly looks as though that would be the case unless the photo is particularly deceptive.

If you want to try and keep that pickup strip in the guitar then I would suggest you investigate how deep it is.  Be VERY careful trying to remove it because it looks as though it is in quite tight against the wooden fillers at each side of the saddle slot, and trying to push it up using the wire down through the bridge into the guitar can bend and break the joint.  It looks as though somebody has already tried to pry it out with a screwdriver going by the scrapes in what looks like packing / masking tape that's been stuck to the top of the strip, perhaps to act as a shim so the same very shallow saddle could sit higher on it.  The pickup could well be one of the old piezo strips that is encapsulated in a metal trough and has quite a deep profile, in contrast with most very thin modern piezo strips or oval cables that sit in the saddle slot.

Some of those old transducers created enough signal whereby a preamp wasn't required to boost the signal level.  If, however, holes have been drilled and cut for a jack socket / plate on the side and a preamp / EQ has been fitted, then I would be inclined to buy one of the much thinner piezo elements, make a new saddle, and re-use the rest of the electrics if they work.

Have you tapped the piezo pickup with the guitar plugged in and does it work?

TDubs

BillDL said:

That looks like a fairly shallow bridge, so I don't know how much deeper you could make the saddle slot in order to accommodate the transducer or a new piezo strip AND have enough of the saddle down into the slot to keep it upright.

Personally I would remove the piezo pickup from the slot, have those wooden filler cut out, and have the saddle replaced with a proper through saddle that would have to be made from scratch from a longer than normal length of bone.  With the piezo transducer out of the saddle slot it might then be deep enough to keep the saddle nice and upright.  Piezo strips don't work very well if the saddle is leaning forwards, and it certainly looks as though that would be the case unless the photo is particularly deceptive.

If you want to try and keep that pickup strip in the guitar then I would suggest you investigate how deep it is.  Be VERY careful trying to remove it because it looks as though it is in quite tight against the wooden fillers at each side of the saddle slot, and trying to push it up using the wire down through the bridge into the guitar can bend and break the joint.  It looks as though somebody has already tried to pry it out with a screwdriver going by the scrapes in what looks like packing / masking tape that's been stuck to the top of the strip, perhaps to act as a shim so the same very shallow saddle could sit higher on it.  The pickup could well be one of the old piezo strips that is encapsulated in a metal trough and has quite a deep profile, in contrast with most very thin modern piezo strips or oval cables that sit in the saddle slot.

Some of those old transducers created enough signal whereby a preamp wasn't required to boost the signal level.  If, however, holes have been drilled and cut for a jack socket / plate on the side and a preamp / EQ has been fitted, then I would be inclined to buy one of the much thinner piezo elements, make a new saddle, and re-use the rest of the electrics if they work.

Have you tapped the piezo pickup with the guitar plugged in and does it work?

Cheers @BillDL ;

The piezo does work. Given the age, relative fragility of the guitar I don't think i'll be trying any mods myself. One for Feline.

I feel the piezo isn't really recreating a true representation of the guitars sound. Its very brittle. Trying to work out what has been installed and whether its worth the time, effort and expense of replacing it with something else that might improve the tone when plugged in.

BillDL

What is the make and model of the guitar, if you don't mind me asking?

Did whoever installed the transducer also fit a battery powered preamp either in the upper bout of the guitar or as one of those integrated into a strap button jack combination?

TDubs

It's a '49 LG-2.

This is below the neck joint inside the body

Inside at the jack end 

Winny_Pooh

The only decent tone you will get with any undersaddle is using IRs in a loader (or the fishman auras) or making your own with something like the NUX air.

If you dont want another box to plug into then a K&K pure mini is good for natural tone or if you want a more electrified tone to run pedals, play slide etc then a mag mic soundhole pickup or LR baggs m80

BillDL

It looks as though your guitar may be worth a fair amount of money, but the unsympathetic way it was electrified will have reduced the resale value quite a bit.  It's hard to know what make of pickup system is installed, but I don't think it's a particularly expensive system at all.  That looks like the preamp enclosure is integrated into the endpin pack.  It's a fairly thick wire going up through into the saddle slot so you MIGHT be able to gently push it upwards to lift out the piezo element to have a look at it.  I would presume (hope) that the cable to the pickup is one with external braid shielding that's covered in a plastic sleeve, but it's impossible to know without very close inspection.

My instinct would be to actually have the guitar bridge restored to original with a new properly fitted saddle and have something like the K&K piezo system comprising contact transducers installed.

I notice that some of the string ball ends have dug up into the bridge plate.  You lose vibration transmission when that happens and it will keep digging into the wood over the years, so at some stage that will need to be addressed.  Also have a look and feel (with a feeler gauge or similar) at the brace shown below.  That looks like a gap under it, but it might just be a shadow.

TDubs

Winny_Pooh said:

The only decent tone you will get with any undersaddle is using IRs in a loader (or the fishman auras) or making your own with something like the NUX air.

If you dont want another box to plug into then a K&K pure mini is good for natural tone or if you want a more electrified tone to run pedals, play slide etc then a mag mic soundhole pickup or LR baggs m80

Cheers. Not wedded to an undersaddle.

Have been looking at the LR Baggs Anthem too as well as the K&K pure mini.

MikeP

I think that bridge was shaved at some point in lieu of a neck set. Looks like an old Martin 21 series maybe? Might still benefit from a neck set and a full height saddle replica bridge, but I would definitely get that pickup out of there and get a new saddle made. I would also get the Bridge slotting tidied up/ redone and use solid pins without slots to save further damage to the Bridge plate. 

BillDL

MikeP said:

..... Looks like an old Martin 21 series maybe?

It's a 1949 Gibson LG-2.  I've only ever held a couple of old LG-2 guitars, but from memory the bridges on them were quite shallow.

FelineGuitars

TDubs said:

It's a '49 LG-2.

This is below the neck joint inside the body

what is the expiry date on that battery?

 It looks like an old one - haven't seen that livery in a few years

BillDL

FelineGuitars said:

what is the expiry date on that battery?

 It looks like an old one - haven't seen that livery in a few years

I was looking at that as well.  My first thought was Eveready but they were red all round.  Could it be a Mallory "tone battery"? 

ICBM

BillDL said:

My instinct would be to actually have the guitar bridge restored to original with a new properly fitted saddle and have something like the K&K piezo system comprising contact transducers installed.

Do this.

I didn’t immediately spot what the guitar was. It’s always a shame when a vintage instrument is butchered like that with a totally inappropriate modern pickup system - it won’t even sound right given the lack of proper depth in the slot, so there’s no point.

Since the endpin has been bored out already you have nothing to lose by fitting a simple passive body transducer which will sound better, as well as allowing the bridge to be repaired properly, and will quite likely make the guitar sound better acoustically too.

FelineGuitars

BillDL said:

FelineGuitars said:

what is the expiry date on that battery?

 It looks like an old one - haven't seen that livery in a few years

I was looking at that as well.  My first thought was Eveready but they were red all round.  Could it be a Mallory "tone battery"? 

No it's one of these - but this livery went out of use a few years ago, hence my query

TDubs

ICBM said:

BillDL said:

My instinct would be to actually have the guitar bridge restored to original with a new properly fitted saddle and have something like the K&K piezo system comprising contact transducers installed.

Do this.

I didn’t immediately spot what the guitar was. It’s always a shame when a vintage instrument is butchered like that with a totally inappropriate modern pickup system - it won’t even sound right given the lack of proper depth in the slot, so there’s no point.

Since the endpin has been bored out already you have nothing to lose by fitting a simple passive body transducer which will sound better, as well as allowing the bridge to be repaired properly, and will quite likely make the guitar sound better acoustically too.

So is the K&K pure mini the best option here? Or anything else to consider.

Will get the other points raised (bridge/saddle etc) sorted when I get the pickup installed.

ICBM

TDubs said:

So is the K&K pure mini the best option here? Or anything else to consider.

LR Baggs I-Beam passive. It’s easier to fit than the K&K, but slightly more expensive. The one I tried didn’t sound quite as good, but it was second hand and I may not have used the best glue to attach it (I wanted it to be non-permanent).

It also has the advantage that it will fit some modern Gibsons that the K&K won’t because they have a tooling hole in the middle of the bridgeplate right where the G/D transducer needs to go. Your guitar is much too old for that though.