existential amps

57Deluxe

So, on this tone quest thing, I got thinking: "Would the amps I have today sound as good (or indifferent) to my ears 35+ years ago?"

Will waiting for the 'ultimate' amp to come by not be so ultimate to my on-going ageing ears?"

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 If you can't be with the one you love, love the one you're with... best advice ever.

ICBM

I don't know, but I think so. I've always had quite a fixed idea of what I want an amp to sound like - when I got my Mesa Trem-o-verb I knew straight away it was the sound I'd always wanted other amps (mostly Marshalls and Fenders) to make, but they never did... from before the Trem-o-verb even existed. I don't have one any more because of the theory of relativity (relative mass increases in proportion to age ), but I can get what I think is a similar sound and feel from my little solid-state Peavey, surprisingly.

Supportact

I'm not sure. Maybe the difference is that I would still have recognised the sound as 'good' many years ago, but I couldn't have said why. Since I've taken more interest in how/why things sound like they do, it's probably caused more procrastination at times, but on the other hand I've learned how to get certain sounds that I like. 

Modulus_Amps

Great amps sound great at the sound that made them great.

If you have a narrow view of what sounds great, you might not think the sound is great and therefore the amp is not great, but you would be wrong.

snowblind

How do you know what you like until you've heard every amp in every situation? There have been some great sounds out of nominally "crap" amps and vice versa. You are always going to compromise to some degree. Add to that chasing someone else's tone is usually a hiding to nothing. Best that can be achieved is a ballpark. Only way to solve the problem is to own a Fender, a Marshall, a HiWatt, a Vox or a Matchless and maybe something like a Supro or a JC120. And maybe add one of those things made out of an old film projector amp section. And an old 50s valve radio. 

Just as long as it isn't digital. 

JayGee

[Shrug] Tastes develop with age and maturity, musicals genres evolve and change.

To be quite honest 35-odd years ago I was all about Teh Br00t@lz (or what passed for it at that time), was all about “everything turned up to 11”,  and I would have been totally underwhelmed by the whole shimmering cleans, edge of break-up, or tasteful low gain slightly crunchy thing (or anything else resembling tonal subtlety),  so, while I would have been absolutely delighted by the OD1 and OD2 channels of my Blackstar Series One or the “Burn” channel of my Mesa 5:25 I’d have been totally underwhelmed by (or disinterested in)  the clean and crunch channels, either of my Ampmaker builds, or my Fender Super Champ… 

It’s not that the amps would sound worse or better, I just wouldn’t have appreciated them or had a use for them…

maltingsaudio

Having had many amps over the years still cannot reproduce the sound I got one afternoon in the 80’s from my twin and my Strat straight in. Couldn’t even reproduce it the following day ! 

So for me it’s amp on the day in the zone. 

To add a bit to this Santana’s tone on Samba Pa Ti on vinyl through a Dansette has never been repeated exactly 

octatonic

ICBM said:

I don't know, but I think so. I've always had quite a fixed idea of what I want an amp to sound like - when I got my Mesa Trem-o-verb I knew straight away it was the sound I'd always wanted other amps (mostly Marshalls and Fenders) to make, but they never did... from before the Trem-o-verb even existed. I don't have one any more because of the theory of relativity (relative mass increases in proportion to age ), but I can get what I think is a similar sound and feel from my little solid-state Peavey, surprisingly.

I've had a similar experience too.
I had a Matchless HC30 on tour in 2005/2006 and it was godly- it was the sound I heard in my head.
Before that I had heard Jeff Martin from Canadian band The Tea Party live and he was playing a pair of Matchless Chieftain's 
which was also an amazing tone.

I then spent the next 18 years looking for that tone in the wrong place until I got my recent amps.

Why I did not just buy the right thing way back when I don't know?
Maybe the cost or the huge volume?
Or just their scarcity.

Now I've got them I don't want to play, or really own, anything else.

ScreamingDave

I think people spend too much time (and money) chasing that perfect tone which, as been alluded to here, will be highly dependent not just on the gear, but the environment on the day. When you’re playing to an audience no-one, not even the rest of your band, gives a rat’s arse about your tone.  It’s about the vibe and energy you create as a band and how you make people feel. 

Having said that, you need to have a good enough to e so you feel good about it and not be distracted from your performance. 

I always say you need good tone live, but great tone in the studio

ICBM

ScreamingDave said:

When you’re playing to an audience no-one, not even the rest of your band, gives a rat’s arse about your tone.

They actually do, but not in the same way as we obsess about tone. As long as the tone is *good* and fits the mix, it's fine. Your band will usually be able to tell if it's just good, or great. If it's shit, or more often just doesn't sit well in the mix, they - even the audience - *will* notice. Unfortunately what a lot of guitarists seem to think is the tone they want - often based on trying to emulate their heroes' sounds, but in a different context - doesn't sit well in the mix.

I have watched audiences wince at the sort of 'tones' some guitarists seem to think are great - usually a cranked small amp that's too loud, too trebly, and too beamy - but not always...

snowblind

Took the BC30 to a practice session on one occasion. The following week I took the Fender bassbreaker 18/30. Everyone asked, "Where did your tone go?". Granted neither of these would be regarded by most as "existential amps" but it does hint at there being degrees of "rightness". Without a comparative frame of reference there is no way to tell if the sound you find so appealing is nails on a chalkboard to the rest of the world.

Lebarque

Just get a 5E3, put a Celestion Blue in it and don't worry about amps anymore.

ICBM

Lebarque said:

Just get a 5E3, put a Celestion Blue in it and don't worry about amps anymore.

Interestingly, that’s a perfect example of too loud, too trebly and too beamy... or at least it can be.

That sound does not work at all for me, and I am a big Neil Young fan so you would think it would.

Even more strangely I love the Victoria 5112, which is not a million miles away in some ways. (But I wouldn’t put a Blue in one.)

YMMV and all that.

Lebarque

ICBM said:

Lebarque said:

Just get a 5E3, put a Celestion Blue in it and don't worry about amps anymore.

Interestingly, that’s a perfect example of too loud, too trebly and too beamy... or at least it can be.

That sound does not work at all for me, and I am a big Neil Young fan so you would think it would.

Even more strangely I love the Victoria 5112, which is not a million miles away in some ways. (But I wouldn’t put a Blue in one.)

YMMV and all that.

You like Peavey Bandits. I'm afraid you can't be taken seriously when it comes to amp tone. :0)

ICBM

Lebarque said:

You like Peavey Bandits. I'm afraid you can't be taken seriously when it comes to amp tone. :0)

That is true, but I also like Mesa Trem-o-verbs and Matchless Lightnings .

There's something that really grates on me with 5E3s, and the Blue makes it worse. I can never get a sound that isn't muddy or harsh somehow, and I've spent ages tinkering with both channels and the tone control... they just do not work for me.

And it does have to be said that one of the usual culprits for bad live tone that causes a 'parting of the red sea' effect in the audience is exactly that sort of cranked small amp pointing straight out into the room. Though I admit it doesn't clear the entire venue in the same way as a 100W stack turned up too far .