Home amp to live setup

TeleKinesis

Hi Fretboarders, looking for some more advice for moving from bedroom guitarist to forming a band and playing live.

I've been thinking about my amp setup recently.

(I play a range of stuff, and this is slightly theoretical at the moment)

I have:

• Blackstar HT-5RH Mk II head (5w)
• Blackstar HT-112OC MkII cab (50w, 16 Ohm)
• Orange Micro Dark
• Two Notes Torpedo Captor X (16 Ohm)
• Bunch of pedals

What I like about the Blackstar:

• Good for home volume
• Easy recording
• Range of sounds
• Cab can be closed or half open backed
  

My only concern is that it's probably not going to be able to keep up in louder practices, and small gigs. Especially for cleans.

What I'd like:

• More volume for practices / eventual gigging
• Decent cleans, range of overdrive
  
• Modern high gain a bonus, but could go with pedals for that
  
• Good with pedals
  
• At least two channels
  
• Not massively heavy if avoidable
  
• Doesn't take up too much room (max is 1 x 12" cab / combo, realistically)
  

That last point is important as space at home a premium for me.

So, my initial thoughts are that I could:

- Swap the Blackstar stuff for e.g. Marshall DSL-40CR

- Swap for a Fender HRD

- Keep what I've got, and get additional 15 - 40w head for use with the HT-112OC.

The cab is 50w, 16 Ohm. Not sure what exact speaker is.

If I get another valve head, would it work well with this cab, and be loud enough over drums etc.?

Marshall DSL-20HR or Orange Rocker 15 Terror look good...

Alternatively I think I could use the Torpedo with a DSL-40CR for attenuation and recording.

Have thought about going down the modeller route before, discounting for now as I don't want to do lots of menu diving, and generally like a simpler setup.

Obviously I need to try some things out, I'd just like to know if getting an additional head is the sensible option.

Budget is £500 max, would likely go second hand route.

Any advice appreciated. Cheers!

AntonHunter

I love my Hot Rod Deluxe, but it is pretty heavy, and I don't think of it as a two-channel amp as the drive channel sounds a bit crap tbh.

bertie

TeleKinesis said:

(I play a range of stuff, and this is slightly theoretical at the moment)

does your "range"  cover everything - ie from clean to "metal"  or is it slightly biased to a narrower selection ?

this "may"  dictate where you might want to go amp wise, depending on which end of the spectrum is more important

CarpeDiem

The Blackstar 5w head is surprisingly loud, but I don’t think it will be clean enough with a live drummer. I’ve found minimum 15w valve heads are needed.

The Fender HRD would give you the clean sounds but you would need pedal(s) to get high gain. I only ever used mine as a clean pedal platform as I didn’t like the drive sound, but this is personal preference. You may also want to change the stock speaker. 

TeleKinesis

Ah, ok, useful comments on the HRD, thanks. I knew they were supposed to be good for cleans, but didn't know about the drive channel. One to keep in mind if I end up using more pedals for the sound. Mostly using drive channel on Blackstar, occasionally with TS or Rat.

TeleKinesis

bertie said:

TeleKinesis said:

(I play a range of stuff, and this is slightly theoretical at the moment)

does your "range"  cover everything - ie from clean to "metal"  or is it slightly biased to a narrower selection ?

this "may"  dictate where you might want to go amp wise, depending on which end of the spectrum is more important

Fair question! I do need more focus on what I'm aiming to do.

Play all sorts at home (90s, folk, country, jazz, metal, anything really), but in terms of a group, I see two routes:

1. Join or form a general / 90s covers band. This would be great, playing songs I like, with people I can get on with. I suppose good cleans for pedals, and some crunch sounds?

2. Play some of the originals I've been working on, in some capacity. This is likely a longer term prospect. I've got a few songs I've been working on, but not finished or ready to perform. Heavy, in the early Pearl Jam / Reef / Pumpkins / Alice In Chains sort of mould, some psyche parts with phase / vibe. Seems the more difficult thing to do, especially as I'd need to significantly up singing ability.

Generally not that obsessed about gear, however the potential lack of volume is nagging me a bit. Even if it's a problem I don't have yet.

CaseOfAce

TeleKinesis said:

Ah, ok, useful comments on the HRD, thanks. I knew they were supposed to be good for cleans, but didn't know about the drive channel. One to keep in mind if I end up using more pedals for the sound. Mostly using drive channel on Blackstar, occasionally with TS or Rat.

Depends what model Hot Rod Deluxe we are talking about.

I haven't played the earlier Mark 1 to 3 versions where the Drive channel is said to be not for everyone - but I use a Mk4 and the drive channel is good enough for me to use in the band I'm in. 
We do Blink 182's All The Small Things in the set and I stomp on the More Drive channel and wind down my guitar volume to to take account of the slight vol bump for hi-gain sounds.

HAL9000

If you already like the HT-5, then why not an HT-20? Not too heavy, and easily loud enough for small venues.

RocknRollDave

Just take whatever amp you like the sound of and mic it up through the PA.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-B-906-TA-312S/dp/B0831TZK9T/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=2W4WN1VJQNIHV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0555Oh76DA-Vc8mpxdZQG6Yr2G3BSwucXDTMHrtwIoQGLLblruwn5tu2tD3UcQlKxglrJHUkMNZhZ_3zFmYqnqk2tEEDmtT2Hc8geHq8xIBhs__ENTaCEsfUUmM4Cqbb6zVaTNJmIR9oYpIGZSRKfx8xyd0DTQE8uolr7URPbvm7sqwQM9x6uaZE0HCc1FjGdFUs9TrWBCnHAAREYzzdZA.8mHLUhDN-Q-t2JkSPkMfmvlGV262ZNXYzN_zhqbXzag&dib_tag=se&keywords=instrument+mic&qid=1707992878&sprefix=instrument+mic%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-8

TeleKinesis

CaseOfAce said:

TeleKinesis said:

Ah, ok, useful comments on the HRD, thanks. I knew they were supposed to be good for cleans, but didn't know about the drive channel. One to keep in mind if I end up using more pedals for the sound. Mostly using drive channel on Blackstar, occasionally with TS or Rat.

Depends what model Hot Rod Deluxe we are talking about.

I haven't played the earlier Mark 1 to 3 versions where the Drive channel is said to be not for everyone - but I use a Mk4 and the drive channel is good enough for me to use in the band I'm in. 
We do Blink 182's All The Small Things in the set and I stomp on the More Drive channel and wind down my guitar volume to to take account of the slight vol bump for hi-gain sounds.

Good to know, cheers  

RocknRollDave said: Just take whatever amp you like the sound of and mic it up through the PA.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Behringer-B-906-TA-312S/dp/B0831TZK9T/ref=mp_s_a_1_8?crid=2W4WN1VJQNIHV&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.0555Oh76DA-Vc8mpxdZQG6Yr2G3BSwucXDTMHrtwIoQGLLblruwn5tu2tD3UcQlKxglrJHUkMNZhZ_3zFmYqnqk2tEEDmtT2Hc8geHq8xIBhs__ENTaCEsfUUmM4Cqbb6zVaTNJmIR9oYpIGZSRKfx8xyd0DTQE8uolr7URPbvm7sqwQM9x6uaZE0HCc1FjGdFUs9TrWBCnHAAREYzzdZA.8mHLUhDN-Q-t2JkSPkMfmvlGV262ZNXYzN_zhqbXzag&dib_tag=se&keywords=instrument+mic&qid=1707992878&sprefix=instrument+mic%2Caps%2C77&sr=8-8

Fair point, I suppose I'm coming at this from a 'cover most bases' point of view, I saw a few DIY gigs, or in e.g. pub garden last year where they were just using a large combo, un-micced. But I will bear this in mind. I've got an SM-57 kicking around.

Do venues usually supply that stuff, or best to pack your own?

TeleKinesis

HAL9000 said:

If you already like the HT-5, then why not an HT-20? Not too heavy, and easily loud enough for small venues.

Heh, the thought had occurred to me (or a similar Blackstar). Irrationally, my instinct was that if I get another head, it has to be a bit different to what I've already got. But I suppose a straight swap is the most logical path here.

It'll likely come down to what's available locally in price range. The general question is - will the cab stand up to it? If it's 50w, can I take that to mean I can use any head with a 16ohm out, up to 50w? Or do I need to have some margin / headroom?

Thanks for all the answers so far

gubble

You've mentioned the Marshall DSL-20 head - I 100% recommend this for gigging and you'll be able to pick one up for under £250.

It's definitely got the modern high gain that you're after but also does a decent clean and also great crunch. I use mine with the classic channel set to edge of breakup and push it with a drive pedal. If i need clean the volume control on the guitar does the job by backing it off. I then use the ultra channel as a solo boost.

I've 3x amps that I use for gigging depending on the mood I'm in. Marshall DSL20-HR , Marshall Origin 20H and an Orange Tiny Terror.  They go through a Marshall 2x12. I'd recommend any of these but i reckon the DSL hits the nail on the head for you.

They are all more than loud enough to do your average pub gig un-mic'd. If you're going to need more volume than this then your entire band is going to be mic'd up through the PA. They're also all small enough and have low power modes to use at home too.

Fender HRD - yes it's the staple live combo, they're a great pedal platform, i gigged one for the best part of a decade, it never let me down etc etc. However I found it so boring. It was just a loud heavy box that just amplified my guitar signal rather than being  part of the sound. I've bought oodles of drive pedals trying to get the sound I wanted and never did.

But of course my experiences are totally subjective to my personal tastes.

stratman3142

I've got a Fender HRD IV, and a Blues Cube Artist which I use as my backup amp and cross stage monitor. I've not really paid that much attention to my Blues Cube Artist.

I took my Blues Cube Artist to a blues jam last weekend (as it's somewhat lighter) and had the opportunity to hear other guitarist s playing through it. It sounded great.

Assuming it should sound similer, I think I might for the Blues Cube Stage now, as the Artist is probably overkill, and the Stage is slightly smaller and even lighter. A bit above your budget new, but you might get one second hand. The Blues Cube has power scaling, which helps for home use. In fact I used my Artist on its 15W setting at the Blues jam.

I think the HRD IV has the slight edge for the cleans, but the drive on my Blues Cube Artist sounds pretty good to me (unlike the drive on my HRD).

Snags

I love my DSL40-CR and the clean is nice, and obviously there's then quite a few gain options. However, a few factors to take into consideration:

• it is quite heavy, particularly the older you get/further you have to park from the venue
• there is a massive volume difference between the clean channel and all the others, so you do need to set it with one master volume assigned to channel 1-1 and the other master volume assigned to channel 1-2, 2-1, and 2-2 if you want ot balance them out
• there is a noticable delay/stumble when switching channels, be that actual channels, or going from voice to voice within a channel; you could probably get away with this live in the middle of a loud song, but if you're exposed and need an instantaneous change, you won't get it using the Marhsall footswitches (2-button or 6-button); I've seen some people say it's slicker via a midi controller, but I don't have one available to test that with
• if you go for the 6-button footswitch pay attention to which one you're getting; one of them works, the other one doesn't

All of that said, I love mine, and it will be going out with me weekend after next when I'm backing a mate on range of songs that will probably run through all four gain options at different points, but weirdly, mostly clean.

Snags

Damn, should also say, depending on venue size, you might be surprised what you can get away with in terms of 5w valve amps.

A good few years ago I played in a band that involved a loud drummer, bass, acoustic guitar, keys, multiple vocals, and me doing electric rhythm and 'lead' (more vamps and fills than searing solos) in relatively small venues (church/village hall kind of thing). I used a 5w Laney Lionheart combo, un-mic'd, and had to turn it down because it was dominating the overall mix.

rsvmark

TeleKinesis said:

Generally not that obsessed about gear,

Are you sure you are in the right place? ;-)

if you are just starting out you do need to think about a situation where you are not mic’d up and competing with a drummer. If you are remotely clean, that means a suitable amp which moves enough air. There are plenty to chose from but if you aren’t too worried, go for an all rounder that can cope with a variety of styles and add pedals to suit. Do think about portability too and also when you might use it. Gigs is fine but you might find it depends on what you need for rehearsals- some studios will have cabs.

TeleKinesis

Snags said:

I love my DSL40-CR and the clean is nice, and obviously there's then quite a few gain options. However, a few factors to take into consideration:

• it is quite heavy, particularly the older you get/further you have to park from the venue
• there is a massive volume difference between the clean channel and all the others, so you do need to set it with one master volume assigned to channel 1-1 and the other master volume assigned to channel 1-2, 2-1, and 2-2 if you want ot balance them out
• there is a noticable delay/stumble when switching channels, be that actual channels, or going from voice to voice within a channel; you could probably get away with this live in the middle of a loud song, but if you're exposed and need an instantaneous change, you won't get it using the Marhsall footswitches (2-button or 6-button); I've seen some people say it's slicker via a midi controller, but I don't have one available to test that with
• if you go for the 6-button footswitch pay attention to which one you're getting; one of them works, the other one doesn't

All of that said, I love mine, and it will be going out with me weekend after next when I'm backing a mate on range of songs that will probably run through all four gain options at different points, but weirdly, mostly clean.

Some good info there, thanks. Interesting point about the delay between switching channels. I've not noticed that on the Blackstar, one to bear in mind for testing a few amps out.

Could just resort to the 'pause for a beat before launching into the chorus' approach to songwriting  

NelsonP

I've got a DSL20CR. It's a great little amp. I'd say it was loud enough for playing with a drummer, although I haven't tried. I rarely get it past 3 on the volume control, even when jamming with friends. DSL40 offers some more tonal options I think, and would be plenty loud enough.


If you like the HT5 then the HT20 or the JJN version of it might fit the bill?

jasonbone75

Lots of suggestions for amps but the cart appears to be in front of the horse in this thread!

I would suggest the band needs to be sorted first and until then you haven't actually got a problem to solve! You play multiple styles at home which is a very good way to go about things as it rounds a player nicely even if they end up hitting one genre in the end.

Until you know if you will be playing in a metal band, a 70s tribute, an 80s/90s pop-rock, a barmitzvah covers band etc. you have no decision to make IMO.