Ditching digital and no idea what to do next

Jonathanthomas83

After 7 years of trying, loving and hating digital solutions (fractal, Kemper and plugins) I’ve come to the conclusion that I second guess myself too much and I want the immediacy of just having the controls of a real amp in front of me. Fewer choices will be good for me.

For example, a clean, crunchy and high gain amp will be a good antidote to the ever paralysing choice between whether I want a Hiwatt, Fender or Vox style clean today, a plexi or 800 style crunch tomorrow or a 5150, Diezel or Mesa high gain the day after.

Problem is that I don’t know what to commit to. I’m fairly certain that I want a Kraken mkII for high gain.

I am uncertain if I want to get the little Marshall studio amps for plexi and 800, or go for something like the Victory Super Sheriff.

And clean is a problem, I want pristine clean for a pedal platform. I’ve always gravitated towards a Laney Lionheart but I worry about clean headroom. I feel like I keep making the same mistake with clean sounds but I really enjoy the way this amp sounds, and how it sounds with pedals. I don’t know if it’s got something to do with its inherent tone or if it’s the class a thing.

Two things to note…I will run these amp heads without a real cabinet and through a reactive load for easy volume management at home. I love that setup and I know it works for me.

secondly, I fully understand how spoiled this sounds, it’s a first world problem and I’m in a fortunate position to be able to have the luxury of three amps. Apologies if that offends. But I am looking for advice.

thanks for your time

octatonic

If you want a pristine clean for a pedal platform then look at higher wattage amps.
You want headroom.

Two Rock are an obvious choice here.
But so is a Twin Reverb, or going downmarket a Hot Rod Deville.
Or a Mesa Lonestar.

Personally I don't like completely clean amps as pedal platforms.
I think amps sound best when they are pushed into overdrive, which means they need to be just under the edge of breakup before the pedals are turned on.
Amps with huge headroom that aren't pushed into overdrive by the pedals, but rather the gain comes from the pedal and sits on top of the clean amp never has the sound or the feel I'm going for.

But YMMV.

CarpeDiem

If you’re looking for such a wide range of tone variation, I’d suggest trying a Mesa Boogie MkV. As with any Mesa I’ve tried, the range of controls mean they can take a while to dial in the sound(s) you’re after but it’s worth the effort because they’re so versatile. 

digitalscream

Be careful with the Kraken. The low-end loss on the Gain II channel is still there, and it was enough to make me get rid of it...twice.

For what it's worth, I went round and round on this myself, and I've ended up with some decent pedals (Bogner Ecstasy Red and Thorpy Heavy Water for gain, in particular) and a Blackstar HT-1 running into an AMT PE-15 15W reactive load. Sounds great, and also gives me the option of running into my cab while winding the amp up - because the PE-15 has a 10% power cab output option. Even at 1W, the HT-1 can be offensively loud for home use, so that's really useful.

snowblind

I'm going to say the answer to everything is a HiWatt and a few pedals. Pretty much nothing you can't do with that.
Unless for some reason all you want is a muddy compressed mess with no definition that is.

Jonathanthomas83

snowblind said:

I'm going to say the answer to everything is a HiWatt and a few pedals. Pretty much nothing you can't do with that.
Unless for some reason all you want is a muddy compressed mess with no definition that is.

That comes with its own problems...the fanboys all say that modern Hiwatt's aren't as good as the old ones and I don't want an old one! Can they get nice and bright like a Fender Twin?

digitalscream said:

Be careful with the Kraken. The low-end loss on the Gain II channel is still there, and it was enough to make me get rid of it...twice.

For what it's worth, I went round and round on this myself, and I've ended up with some decent pedals (Bogner Ecstasy Red and Thorpy Heavy Water for gain, in particular) and a Blackstar HT-1 running into an AMT PE-15 15W reactive load. Sounds great, and also gives me the option of running into my cab while winding the amp up - because the PE-15 has a 10% power cab output option. Even at 1W, the HT-1 can be offensively loud for home use, so that's really useful.

That's a pain, it was the only one I'd really considered would be a shoo in. Is it the same for the Super Kraken?octatonic said:

If you want a pristine clean for a pedal platform then look at higher wattage amps.
You want headroom.

Two Rock are an obvious choice here.
But so is a Twin Reverb, or going downmarket a Hot Rod Deville.
Or a Mesa Lonestar.

Personally I don't like completely clean amps as pedal platforms.
I think amps sound best when they are pushed into overdrive, which means they need to be just under the edge of breakup before the pedals are turned on.
Amps with huge headroom that aren't pushed into overdrive by the pedals, but rather the gain comes from the pedal and sits on top of the clean amp never has the sound or the feel I'm going for.

But YMMV.

Thank you for this. I had considered a Traditional Clean, but price is monstrous. But you only live once, right? I am also cautious that every demo I've heard of it sounds like a tribute to John Mayer. Seems like it has a distinct tone, I don't necessarily want that. I want something straight up and clean.

digitalscream

Jonathanthomas83 said:

digitalscream said:

Be careful with the Kraken. The low-end loss on the Gain II channel is still there, and it was enough to make me get rid of it...twice.

For what it's worth, I went round and round on this myself, and I've ended up with some decent pedals (Bogner Ecstasy Red and Thorpy Heavy Water for gain, in particular) and a Blackstar HT-1 running into an AMT PE-15 15W reactive load. Sounds great, and also gives me the option of running into my cab while winding the amp up - because the PE-15 has a 10% power cab output option. Even at 1W, the HT-1 can be offensively loud for home use, so that's really useful.

That's a pain, it was the only one I'd really considered would be a shoo in. Is it the same for the Super Kraken?

I'm honestly not sure. The voicing change is a function of both the preamp and the power amp, but I think there's something to defeat it in the Super Kraken.

Either way, I found that the Jet City JCA50H was a much better fit for me - once I'd removed the bright caps, it had the exact same gain levels as the Kraken, without the voicing change between channels.

I can make the Bogner Red into the HT-1 sound more or less exactly the same as the Jet City, which is why I run it that way at home now.

So...my recommendation would be to get a JCA50H for the gain-y amp, or a Soldano of some sort if you're feeling spendy. I don't see a huge reason to do that, mind.

Alternatively, wait until the Soldano X88IR is out and get that to do everything - it's got the crystal clean channel, but also the trademark Soldano crunch and drive channels. Then get a mono power amp, something like the Mooer Tube Engine, and run it into a reactive load - presto, job done with just one setup. Or, more economically, just plug the X88IR direct into your interface and run something that can do power amp emulation, like Wall of Sound III.

Nerine

Have you considered a modeller and power amp? Plenty of tonal options, there.

octatonic

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thank you for this. I had considered a Traditional Clean, but price is monstrous. But you only live once, right? I am also cautious that every demo I've heard of it sounds like a tribute to John Mayer. Seems like it has a distinct tone, I don't necessarily want that. I want something straight up and clean.

Rest assured, plugging into a Two Rock TC won't make you sound like John Mayer.
Two Rock do have a 'revealing' sort of tone but he sounds like he does because of his hands and his brain, not the gear.

If you are happy to move away from pristine cleans into something with a bit of edge then there are loads of options.
Most of the Matchless/Bad Cats sound great with low gain, high master.
Or a Lazy J J40 or J80.
Even a J20 is pretty darn loud.

Victoria and Tone King have options too.

Do you want something more American in sound, or British?

I'm not at all a fan of Victory amps- I find them muddy and overly compressed in the midrange.

My old Carol Ann OD3R is for sale at Music Street and has a killer high headroom clean sound.

Or out of boutique-land, most of Fender's offerings over 30w will do it.
A Marshall JTM45 will do it.
Even a JCM800 on low input is a killer clean that is often overlooked.

digitalkettle

octatonic said:

Jonathanthomas83 said:

Thank you for this. I had considered a Traditional Clean, but price is monstrous. But you only live once, right? I am also cautious that every demo I've heard of it sounds like a tribute to John Mayer. Seems like it has a distinct tone, I don't necessarily want that. I want something straight up and clean.

Rest assured, plugging into a Two Rock TC won't make you sound like John Mayer.
Two Rock do have a 'revealing' sort of tone but he sounds like he does because of...

It's the Klon, isn't it?!!

Nerine

If you want a Two Rock that can get a bit dirty, but still has bags of clean headroom, I've got a very sensibly priced Classic Reverb for sale in the classifieds. 

ElectricXII

@Jonathanthomas83 ;If you're running the amp only at home with no cabinet, I don't really understand your concern about lack of clean headroom.

I'd get a Marshall JTM45, which has lovely cleans, and get most of your drive tones from pedals.

victorludorum

Have you had a look at Matamp?

TTBZ

Have you tried a PRS MT15? I absolutely loved the drive channel on it, it sounds huge and saturated. I've seen some complaints about it being noisy but the one I tried wasn't. Clean channel is great too, could use a nice MIAB over that for the Marshally stuff. If you want more headroom then maybe the newer 100w would be better. 

Other than that I'm still a big fan of my Studio Jubilee (or again the big one if you need more headroom). Great cleans, crunch and modded Marshall type tones and I can get all the heaviness and saturation I want with a boost.

timbuk02

A small/big plus for Laney is their servicing - they picked up, serviced + fixed the clean channel (had stopped working) then delivered back my VC15 all for £65. Have you considered their three channel Ironhearts for an all-in-one solution?

Alternatively the new Victory Deputy looks nice for clean/pedal platform duties.

NelsonP

I've found it very hard to get all three.

I've got a Marshall DSL20CR, which does clean (has some breakup) and Marshally higher gain (almost too much, so I keep the gain low on the red channel) and a Mesa .50 cal which does fendery cleans and high gain, but not much in between.

I like the look of the friedman runt 20 and jj jr, but not sure they'd be much different from my dsl.

Marshall 2525 might do the trick, or a Mesa of some sort, but nothing jumps out. I feel your pain!

Yorkie

I too have had an uneasy relationship with digital. I’ve kept the simplest digital gear for practicing, but all the rest is either valve or transistor or both. 

My recommendation would be a DSL40, either the C or the CR. Both sound better with a Creamback. The C is cheaper and has fewer digital components, the CR has more digital capabilities and per channel master volumes. They also look a bit different (like black vs gray grille), and frustratingly it is difficult to appreciate on publicly available pictures. 

Snags

Based on the 5w Lionheart I'd be surprised if you ran out of clean headroom on the 20w. Unless you're a total hooligan.

CarpeDiem

Snags said:

Based on the 5w Lionheart I'd be surprised if you ran out of clean headroom on the 20w. Unless you're a total hooligan.

I’ve used a Laney IRT (15w) through a 4x12 cab at a band rehearsal and it had enough clean headroom with an enthusiastic drummer.

welshboyo

Honeymoon type answer….

JVM - I’ve spent years and years looking for a sound/feel, been through Bogner’s, Mesa’s, Friedman’s etc etc and the good old JVM has it all in spades, turn it on and it’s just all there….

Stratavarious

DSL40CR or the DSL402 2x12 to play with the speakers…. Loads of great classic tones.  Some of the best Marshall Crunch.