I think I want a 00, with a wide nut.

earwighoney

menamestom said:

I’ve had my Dreadnought for around 25 years, so about time I tried something different.

I want something smaller and was thinking OM but lately I’ve been looking at 00 guitars. 

Eastman seem to has some decent options, looking for all solid and a fairly wide nut, not sure what my dread is but feels a bit narrow, 43mm i think, so looking at 1 13/16, around 45-46mm as I switch between steel and classical.

Open to suggestions, don’t want to spend too much, up to about £1500, so looking for opinions, on the Eastmans and alternatives.

https://www.eastmanguitars.com/e10oo_tc

I've got a Eastman E10-00. It's a fantastic guitar for sound, but like the poster above, the neck profile is a bit of a struggle.

bertie

DavidR said:

bertie said:

Check out JWJ guitars -  they do 13 fret joins  - and sound amazing, there's some great demos on ewechoob

Rich is based up in Salops,  and increadibly helpful.   He's at the Guitar show in Brum, and I think travelling around with the "tour"

https://jwjguitars.co.uk/

There’s a couple of Guitarist Magazine reviews of JWJ acoustics recently. Very interesting. Hope they can ramp up production if demand for them is there. Which I suspect it will be. 

check the David Mead  review of two of them on YT,  the small one is quite superb

menamestom

Shadow said:

menamestom said:

I really like this.  

https://youtu.be/xH0lrLPh5ro?si=K70Y4aMiqf8g0l0x

I’m wondering if I want a smaller bodied 14 fret rather than 12 fret guitar.  But, when Eastman change the scale and fret to body join they make the nut skinnier.  Is that some historical thing?  

Acoustic guitars are confusing, I can play them okay but I don’t know much about them at all.  I think I’ve nailed down a size then something with the same name has a different body shape.

Long story short, I need to play a few small bodied guitars, bigger than a parlour, smaller than an OM, with a wider nut.  Some smaller models seem really punch and focused whilst some tend to sound really boxy.  Not sure if thats a spec thing or a model thing.

I had the E1-OOSS which has the same dimensions as the E10. I couldn't get on with the narrow nut so I got rid of it. I now have The E10 OO which is the 12 feet with 1 13/16 nut. I love everything about it, comfort, tone, nut worth but I'm struggling with the extremely chunky neck as I have relatively small hands. I'm on the fence whether to move it on. 

I just wish they did something between the two (for me) extremes.

OP, if you're ever this side of the country you're welcome to try out.

Thanks, you’re in Hull looking at your profile? Played a gig there recently above a record store in an arts centre kind of place was great.  But alas, not due back for a while!

How do the 2 guitars sound compared to each other out of interest?  Does the body join 12 vs 14 change the sound much?

Will have to them, I like chunky necks usually but not sure on acoustics. 

Shadow

menamestom said:

Shadow said:

menamestom said:

I really like this.  

https://youtu.be/xH0lrLPh5ro?si=K70Y4aMiqf8g0l0x

I’m wondering if I want a smaller bodied 14 fret rather than 12 fret guitar.  But, when Eastman change the scale and fret to body join they make the nut skinnier.  Is that some historical thing?  

Acoustic guitars are confusing, I can play them okay but I don’t know much about them at all.  I think I’ve nailed down a size then something with the same name has a different body shape.

Long story short, I need to play a few small bodied guitars, bigger than a parlour, smaller than an OM, with a wider nut.  Some smaller models seem really punch and focused whilst some tend to sound really boxy.  Not sure if thats a spec thing or a model thing.

I had the E1-OOSS which has the same dimensions as the E10. I couldn't get on with the narrow nut so I got rid of it. I now have The E10 OO which is the 12 feet with 1 13/16 nut. I love everything about it, comfort, tone, nut worth but I'm struggling with the extremely chunky neck as I have relatively small hands. I'm on the fence whether to move it on. 

I just wish they did something between the two (for me) extremes.

OP, if you're ever this side of the country you're welcome to try out.

Thanks, you’re in Hull looking at your profile? Played a gig there recently above a record store in an arts centre kind of place was great.  But alas, not due back for a while!

How do the 2 guitars sound compared to each other out of interest?  Does the body join 12 vs 14 change the sound much?

Will have to them, I like chunky necks usually but not sure on acoustics. 

Yes, Hull. The Wrecking Ball? 

I wasn't able to compare them directly as I sold the E1 to buy the E10. I'd say the E10 projects better (louder), and has a much fuller tone, excellent for fingerstyle. It's difficult to know how much the body join affects the tone as the E1 is sitka/sapele and the E10 is adirondack/mahogany.

menamestom

The Wrecking ball, that’s the one @Shadow ;

Anyway, interesting on the E10.  Could fit the bill if the neck suits….

DavidR

Can we keep this thread going please. Learning a lot about 00’s!

:-)

Anyone else got any thoughts about 00’s with mahogany in like the E10?

menamestom

DavidR said:

Can we keep this thread going please. Learning a lot about 00’s!

:-)

Anyone else got any thoughts about 00’s with mahogany in like the E10?

Do you mean all mahogany?

If so they seem to be rare.  One think I’ve noticed is there’s no set definition for 00’s, shapes and sizes seem to vary and overlap.  I’ve found that quite confusing, I want something bigger than a palour and smaller than an OM but sizes for those change as well.  The Eastmans look ideal, size wise. 

There’s the Harley Benton, but it is an Okoume top rather than mahogany.  But I assume it is similar.

There’s a Martin, but I it’s a 000 size guitar, even though it’s a similar shape to the 00 (some 000 seem to be OM shape, confusingly)

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/11101709575019--martin-000-15sm

There’s a Guild, which is listed as a Concert size, which I assume is supposed to be smaller than a 00.


https://guitarvillage.co.uk/product/guild-m-20-natural

DavidR

Yes, all-mahogany. Thanks @menamestom ; Very helpful.

Back to @earwighoney OP, the Sigma S00R-45VS and the Eastman E10 00-TC are 46mm nut width but the Sigma is Adirondack Spruce/Rosewood and the Eastman Adirondack Spruce/Mahogany.

S00R-45VS - Sigma Guitars - Legendary Acoustic Guitars (sigma-guitars.com)
E10OO - Eastman Guitars

My go-to acoustic currently is an all-mahogany Vintage V300MH and I would love another all-mahogany 00 acoustic which is a bit more upmarket (about £1K - £1.5K) and, like @earwighoney , a slightly larger nut width. The nut width on the Vintage is 42mm. It's comfortable to play in my hands but note definition is not as good as when I play my FG's or OM (which now cause me shoulder/neck problems). Nut width on the HB CLA -15M is 43mm sadly.

Vintage V300 Acoustic Folk Guitar ~ Mahogany – VintageGuitarsRus

CLA-15M Solid Wood - Harley Benton

All-mahogany 45-6mm nut width 00's are a bit thin on the ground aren't they! That Guild M-20 Natural all-mahogany (44.5mm) and the Eastman E10 00-TC nearest matches.

Guild M-20 Natural - Guitar Village

Thanks for your advice.

 

drofluf

menamestom said:

There’s a Martin, but I it’s a 000 size guitar, even though it’s a similar shape to the 00 (some 000 seem to be OM shape, confusingly)

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/11101709575019--martin-000-15sm

This https://www.guitarworld.com/features/martin-acoustic-body-sizes helps explain some of the differences albeit froma Martin perspective. Other manufacturers have different interpretations of size shape but broadly follow the hierarchy. 

I used to have the 14 fret version of the Martin you linked to. It’s 000 so same shape as the 00 but a little larger. OM and 000 generally have the same body but the OOM a longer scale. 

bertie

as, I think has been demonstrated,  you really dont want to get too bogged down with "off plan" sizes and comparisons as it can end up consuming you and being completely unproductive.   Its a well used cliche, but you really need to get out there and try some

guitarjack66

Are double 00 sized guitars generally those which would be considered 'Concert' sized? One step above the parlour guitar and with a recognisibly fatter lower bout?

menamestom

bertie said:

as, I think has been demonstrated,  you really dont want to get too bogged down with "off plan" sizes and comparisons as it can end up consuming you and being completely unproductive.   Its a well used cliche, but you really need to get out there and try some

Yeah definitely, agree on the comparisons being unproductive. 

Trouble is Manchester isn't what it was though for guitar shops, I used to go to Sounds Great back in the day and try out a decent range to my hearts content, but they are no longer around.

PMT are okay but tend to be Yamaha, Martin, Taylor and Gibson, no Eastman or anything like that.  Also, you always have somebody trying a drum kit through a PA or somethign so you can't hear much.

Forsyths are good, I'll plan a trip there, but they only have limited stock, nothing I particularily want in my price range.  
They have some lovely Atkin's in stock, but I can't justify that kind of spend and would probably lose control with my credit card so perhaps I shouls avoid! 

Richards looks the best, but it's probably a 4.5 hour round trip.

Tannin

menamestom said:

There’s the Harley Benton, but it is an Okoume top rather than mahogany.  But I assume it is similar.

There’s a Martin, but I it’s a 000 size guitar, even though it’s a similar shape to the 00 (some 000 seem to be OM shape, confusingly)

https://www.guitarguitar.co.uk/product/11101709575019--martin-000-15sm

There’s a Guild, which is listed as a Concert size, which I assume is supposed to be smaller than a 00.


https://guitarvillage.co.uk/product/guild-m-20-natural

Okoume is very different to mahogany (at least on paper). It is as light as Sitka Spruce, and as soft as Western Red Cedar. (!) Whether this translates into the expected very different sound, I do not know. Never played one.

Martin 000 is the same as Martin 00 except for being slightly larger all-round. 

Martin OM is exactly the same as Martin 000. The main difference is the longer neck which provides a standard scale length; the bodies are the same.

"Concert size", for most makers, means the same thing as 00 in Martinspeak.

Furch quote their standard nut width two ways and they don't agree! They say 1 3/4" (44.5mm) in one breath, and 45mm in the next. I have roughly measured mine (just with a ruler) and it's ... er ... maybe 44.5mm but I can't say for sure. When I get home (I'm travelling again at present and for that reason a bit absent here) I'll measure it properly.

PS: My Furch 45mm(ish) "soft V" neck is hands down the best, most comfortable I have ever played. Not sure why they call it a "V" to be honest, it doesn't feel V-shaped, it just feels like part of my hand. I've got some lovely guitars with excellent necks I'm completely happy with, but the neck on this new Furch is in another league.

guitarjack66

menamestom said:

bertie said:

as, I think has been demonstrated,  you really dont want to get too bogged down with "off plan" sizes and comparisons as it can end up consuming you and being completely unproductive.   Its a well used cliche, but you really need to get out there and try some

Yeah definitely, agree on the comparisons being unproductive. 

Trouble is Manchester isn't what it was though for guitar shops, I used to go to Sounds Great back in the day and try out a decent range to my hearts content, but they are no longer around.

PMT are okay but tend to be Yamaha, Martin, Taylor and Gibson, no Eastman or anything like that.  Also, you always have somebody trying a drum kit through a PA or somethign so you can't hear much.

Forsyths are good, I'll plan a trip there, but they only have limited stock, nothing I particularily want in my price range.  

Richards looks the best, but it's probably a 4.5 hour round trip.

You mention Manchester so I assume you are based in that area? Is Reidys in Blackburn any good or are they simply box shifters with a better website than physical store?

menamestom

@guitarjack66 I’ve never actually been.  It’s about an hour away as I’m south Manchester.
I have a site in Blackburn (work related), you’ve just given me an idea as it is overdue a survey!

Shadow

That Sigma might be my Goldilocks 00 though I'll probably never find out as there doesn't seem to be one in stock anywhere, certainly not close enough to visit.

earwighoney

Shadow said:

That Sigma might be my Goldilocks 00 though I'll probably never find out as there doesn't seem to be one in stock anywhere, certainly not close enough to visit.

I've got a guitar made by Recording King, and I have a suspicion they and Sigma are made in the same Cor Tek factory in China, and I had a chance to compare a few side by side back in the day when the Westside Distribution shop in Tin Pan Alley carried both brands.  They both had the same characteristic work 'inside the box'.  This was a few years ago and I have no idea whether the same factory still make the same instruments.

The RK's/Sigmas are good guitars, but their build quality is nowhere near the standards of Eastman.  Which isn't to say my Eastman is a guitar I like more than my RK, I like my RK a lot, it's a good guitar for a few hundred pounds.  There's no way I think the high end RK's/Sigmas can justify their high price tags, I think there are better guitars for that kind of money.  Even if it's the Goldilocks body dimensions, I'd rather get a Furch for about a £1k or so, or an Eastman.

Shadow

earwighoney said:

Shadow said:

That Sigma might be my Goldilocks 00 though I'll probably never find out as there doesn't seem to be one in stock anywhere, certainly not close enough to visit.

I've got a guitar made by Recording King, and I have a suspicion they and Sigma are made in the same Cor Tek factory in China, and I had a chance to compare a few side by side back in the day when the Westside Distribution shop in Tin Pan Alley carried both brands.  They both had the same characteristic work 'inside the box'.  This was a few years ago and I have no idea whether the same factory still make the same instruments.

The RK's/Sigmas are good guitars, but their build quality is nowhere near the standards of Eastman.  Which isn't to say my Eastman is a guitar I like more than my RK, I like my RK a lot, it's a good guitar for a few hundred pounds.  There's no way I think the high end RK's/Sigmas can justify their high price tags, I think there are better guitars for that kind of money.  Even if it's the Goldilocks body dimensions, I'd rather get a Furch for about a £1k or so, or an Eastman.

Thanks for taking the time to post that. I had the impression that the higher end Sigma's, 42 and 45, were pretty good quality so it's interesting to see what you say.

I love the body size of the Eastman, it's just the chunky neck profile (not the nut width) that can give me problems. I'm not sure that Furch have a 00 around the £1k mark. If they did I'd definitely be interested.

earwighoney

Shadow said:Thanks for taking the time to post that. I had the impression that the higher end Sigma's, 42 and 45, were pretty good quality so it's interesting to see what you say.

I love the body size of the Eastman, it's just the chunky neck profile (not the nut width) that can give me problems. I'm not sure that Furch have a 00 around the £1k mark. If they did I'd definitely be interested.

I'd say try one out if you can.  

I've read a few reviews of the new red spruce/Adirondack Recording Kings and they seem to be a mixed bag.  I have a suspicion they are using the same materials as the high end Sigmas, so good for materials but they seem to cut a few corners here and there for QC.  I've been tempted by the Recording King RP342.  You are right there is a bit of shortage of good 00's be it 12 or 14 frets. 

A small gripe about the Sigma and RK 12 fret 00's is they are all long scale. My RK 12 fret 0 is long scale, and I like it a lot but I prefer short scale on smaller bodied guitars.

Coldfingers

A couple of "out there" suggestions - over budget, Fylde Ariel or Goodfellow, 46mm nut which I thought would be too much, but turned out to be surprisingly comfortable.

"Vintage" (brand) Gordon Giltrap models - I tried the all mahogany one years back, I thought it ws one of the weirdest looking guitars I'd seen, but sitting with it, was one of the most comfortable guitars I've held! Wish I'd bought it, it was only about £350 if I remember correctly, though that was a while back now.