Lowden 010 - mixing techniques for boomy resonant frequency?

Bradders

I am getting back into recording finally. I have done a bit with my current guitar which is a Lowden 010. I am recording with a single Gefell M300 through a babyface pro fs. I am in fairly decently sized rectangular room with a highish ceiling. I am only using furniture and diy solutions to treat the space. What I do is open up my wardrobe which is full. Lay duvets over the doors a record with the wardrobe behind me while I sit with my back as close as possible. It seems to do a good job of reducing reflections, to my ears the room is generally dampened with a bed in one corner and a thick carpet. Not ideal, I know but just experimenting and trusting my ears.

The 010 has a boomy resonant frequency around 95-100hz. I am typically in open D and when I play a G base note on the 5th fret(low D string) the guitar resonates a lot! It produces a rather heavy woof! When I am just play and not recording its obviously not as pronounce to me. But obviously when recording with headphones, the boom is really hot and the volume spikes around 5 or 6 db.

I know that acoustic guitars all have a resonant frequency. The Mcilroy A25 I used to own didn't seem to have it so pronounce and was generally more balanced.

I can mitigate it by applying some palm pressure just above the bridge area but this is not ideal for ergonomics.

I apply a LC on the EQ and drop about 5db around 95-100hz which cleans things up a fair bit. But that boom still peaks through andI don't want to pull it down so much that it kills that warmth in general. I am trying to practice just it that note more lightly but when I get lost in the moment I just end up hitting it normally.

I have also applied some volume reduction on these hot spots post recording which also helps but I prefer to address it at source to reduce the need to apply multiple clean ups in post.

Any other suggestions or advice for recording and mixing techniques to help tame these resonant spikes?

Whistler

Is the 95-100Hz resonant frequency the same as one of the room's nodes? Are you standing at a peak? Where are the room's nulls? How does it sound when you play there?

Have you played the Lowden in the garden so that you can remove the room from the equation? Is the resonant boom still there? Is it the guitar or the room?

Winny_Pooh

Good point ^^^

Move more to the centre of the room. Also, in a multi instrument mix many reflections are invisible, as being 3 to 6db lower than the main source, are effectively masked. That's better than boominess.

Where is the mic positioned? IMO the starting point for close micing is 3-4in away from the 12th fret and shooting toward the soundhole. 

If there is no solution with the above use a multiband compressor around that frequency range. 

Bradders

Whistler said:

Is the 95-100Hz resonant frequency the same as one of the room's nodes? Are you standing at a peak? Where are the room's nulls? How does it sound when you play there?

Have you played the Lowden in the garden so that you can remove the room from the equation? Is the resonant boom still there? Is it the guitar or the room?

I'll have to test this out a bit more. I did have a test around the room a bit and I dont think its the same as one of the room nodes, I don't get any room sound resonating back at me when playing the note. I will test outside for reference in the morning.

I suspect it is the guitar. When I listen to other 010 demos on YT I can pick up a boom when the same note/chord is played so I guess it is common with this model and wood combo.

Bradders

Winny_Pooh said:

Good point ^^^

Move more to the centre of the room. Also, in a multi instrument mix many reflections are invisible, as being 3 to 6db lower than the main source, are effectively masked. That's better than boominess.

Where is the mic positioned? IMO the starting point for close micing is 3-4in away from the 12th fret and shooting toward the soundhole. 

If there is no solution with the above use a multiband compressor around that frequency range. 

I do add in other instruments, mostly samples in the box such as strings, felt piano etc which does help. I position the mic about where you are suggesting, a bit farther away, about 10 inches as the 010 is a loud guitar, I will try closer and drop the gain the gain on the signal.

I will try the multiband comp as an alternative to see how that sounds.

Stuckfast

I would experiment with different mic positions. I'm often not all that keen on the sound you get from close miking the neck/body join. One position that can work well is with the mic low down, looking diagonally up at the guitar from in front -- sort of between your legs if you're sitting that way.

octatonic

Stuckfast said:

I would experiment with different mic positions. I'm often not all that keen on the sound you get from close miking the neck/body join. One position that can work well is with the mic low down, looking diagonally up at the guitar from in front -- sort of between your legs if you're sitting that way.

This.

If all else fails try a dynamic EQ.

Macca_25387

Lowdons are unlike any acoustic i’ve ever miked. They sound completely different from sitting playing one to standing away listening to one. The one i had for a short while had a huge sound.  As above spend some time experimenting with mic positions. Try coming looking slightly up towards the strings. Aiming for the bottom 3 strings. 

Bradders

Stuckfast said:

I would experiment with different mic positions. I'm often not all that keen on the sound you get from close miking the neck/body join. One position that can work well is with the mic low down, looking diagonally up at the guitar from in front -- sort of between your legs if you're sitting that way.

Will give this a try

Bradders

octatonic said:

Stuckfast said:

I would experiment with different mic positions. I'm often not all that keen on the sound you get from close miking the neck/body join. One position that can work well is with the mic low down, looking diagonally up at the guitar from in front -- sort of between your legs if you're sitting that way.

This.

If all else fails try a dynamic EQ.

Thanks

Bradders

Macca_25387 said:

Lowdons are unlike any acoustic i’ve ever miked. They sound completely different from sitting playing one to standing away listening to one. The one i had for a short while had a huge sound.  As above spend some time experimenting with mic positions. Try coming looking slightly up towards the strings. Aiming for the bottom 3 strings. 

The 010 is indeed a big sound and very dynamic! My next idea is to pick up second mic. I'm looking at picking up something like the se electronics VR2 and recording in stereo with the M300. Have the M300 for detail and the Vr2 for the warmth and body and give the guitar a wider space on the stereo image.

Macca_25387

Try mid side Blumlien technique rather than a spaced pair. That way you won’t encounter any issues with phase. 

Bradders

I spent some time this evening experimenting with placing the mic as suggested. I placed the mic about 8 inches away from the guitar, lowered down and angle the the mic upwards point to where the neck meets the body at the bottom 3 strings and I am please to say it sounds significantly better. The highs are smoother and the over sound is warmer and less punch. Overall more natural and pleasing. The gefell M300 is super sensitive, fast, open and clear and coupled with the Lowden it just accentuates an already dynamic guitar which results too much sonic information. Just moving the mic off to the side makes it sound more like it does from the playing position.

Thanks all for the advice!

Bradders

Macca_25387 said:

Try mid side Blumlien technique rather than a spaced pair. That way you won’t encounter any issues with phase. 

Good shout, I have dabbled with mid side recording when I had an se4400a and it sounded good. I sold that mic sadly. I do like the sound of the se VR2 though which sounds smoother and more natural, with that lovely warmth.

Winny_Pooh

More body!?

You're better off with an omni mic than a ribbon if your source has lots of low end. 

I do love the vr ribbons though

Macca_25387

Eric valentine does an interesting technique with acoustics where he points one towards the lower 3 strings as i posted above, and then one facing down and aimed at the top three strings. I did try this, but found i liked one mic on its own over the two. 

Bradders

Winny_Pooh said:

More body!?

You're better off with an omni mic than a ribbon if your source has lots of low end. 

I do love the vr ribbons though

Haha, point taken

Bradders

Macca_25387 said:

Eric valentine does an interesting technique with acoustics where he points one towards the lower 3 strings as i posted above, and then one facing down and aimed at the top three strings. I did try this, but found i liked one mic on its own over the two. 

Sounds interesting. Will bear this technique in mind to try when I decide on a second mic. 

Winny_Pooh

Macca_25387 said:

Eric valentine does an interesting technique with acoustics where he points one towards the lower 3 strings as i posted above, and then one facing down and aimed at the top three strings. I did try this, but found i liked one mic on its own over the two. 

I think that works in a big mix when panning widely but weird if you like purer tones.

Generally for acoustics as a rule of thumb: nice in mono near the 12th or 15th fret or stereo XY/Blumlein 1-2 feet away & from 3 feet and further you might look at a spaced omni pair (and jenklin disc) like they do in classical recordings. 

Macca_25387

Yeah i didn’t get anything that i felt i could use with that mic setup. Mono mic works in most cases for me or if it’s a more acoustic focused song i go with a Blumlein setup. 

Bradders

Winny_Pooh said:

Macca_25387 said:

Eric valentine does an interesting technique with acoustics where he points one towards the lower 3 strings as i posted above, and then one facing down and aimed at the top three strings. I did try this, but found i liked one mic on its own over the two. 

I think that works in a big mix when panning widely but weird if you like purer tones.

Generally for acoustics as a rule of thumb: nice in mono near the 12th or 15th fret or stereo XY/Blumlein 1-2 feet away & from 3 feet and further you might look at a spaced omni pair (and jenklin disc) like they do in classical recordings. 

Any thoughts on the line audio omni1 pencil mics?