Lower volume when using an mfx through the FX return of my single channel Laney Cub 12R

Voxman

Hi everyone,

Although only 15w, and especially with a Celestion Vintage 30 speaker (100 db), the Cub is really loud!  However, when I put an mfx through the FX return, it has no where near the volume.  With the same mfx, same settings, I don't have this issue with any other amp. I appreciate that the Cub doesn't have a master volume (which 4 of my 5 other amps have), but then neither does my Laney VC30-210 which also has no master volume and is technically a single channel amp (albeit it has a clean and gain 'channel' and volume is fine through the FX return.

I've cleaned all the Cub's sockets just in case the fx return may have been dirty, but there's no difference.  Is this lower volume via the FX return normal for this type of amp or am I missing something here?  

TheBigDipper

Can you clarify a bit further. Are you using an MFX in the loop or are you missing out on the guitar input and going into the MFx and then into the FX return - like you might do with a modeller or an external preamp? 

welshboyo

Line Level? +4 vs -10db  - what is the Cub expecting?

TheBigDipper

welshboyo said:

Line Level? +4 vs -10db  - what is the Cub expecting?

And, of course, what happens if you jumper the FX loop with a short cable? Is there a volume drop? 

Danny1969

The loops on Laney amps are often parallel, not serial as most other amps so you may well find the return isn't wide open to the PWR amp section as normal. 

ICBM

The loop on this amp is series, unlike many Laneys of that era.

There's a catch you may be unaware of though - the amp *does* have a sort-of master volume, it's actually a fixed-resistor post-phase-inverter type that's used to create the 1W input mode. From memory, you need to have a plug in the 15W jack to operate the relay which bypasses the resistors and gives the full output power.

Voxman

ICBM said:

The loop on this amp is series, unlike many Laneys of that era.

There's a catch you may be unaware of though - the amp *does* have a sort-of master volume, it's actually a fixed-resistor post-phase-inverter type that's used to create the 1W input mode. From memory, you need to have a plug in the 15W jack to operate the relay which bypasses the resistors and gives the full output power.

I appreciated this is a series loop (parallel loops on my VC30, DSL401 and Valvestate, which all have a FX mix knob).  Didn't know about the jack trick, thanks - Yup, just tried it, and yes it does raise the volume, but only a bit. With the Pod Go even with the main out volume maxed, even compared with guitar straight into the 1w input the Cub is still louder, and at 15w input the difference is huge!  I played around with the Pod Go global settings re outputs, but didn't help - maybe it's something in the Pod Go settings I'm missing but as mentioned, the Pod Go with standard settings is loud through everything else. 

TheBigDipper said:

Can you clarify a bit further. Are you using an MFX in the loop or are you missing out on the guitar input and going into the MFx and then into the FX return - like you might do with a modeller or an external preamp? 

Second option - Pod Go main out to Cub FX return - ie bypassing the Cub's pre-amp stage and just using it as a power amp. (The Pod Go is a modelling MFX)

TheBigDipper said:

welshboyo said:

Line Level? +4 vs -10db  - what is the Cub expecting?

And, of course, what happens if you jumper the FX loop with a short cable? Is there a volume drop? 

It's a series not parallel loop so you just get no sound.

bertie

Voxman said:

TheBigDipper said:

welshboyo said:

Line Level? +4 vs -10db  - what is the Cub expecting?

And, of course, what happens if you jumper the FX loop with a short cable? Is there a volume drop? 

It's a series not parallel loop so you just get no sound.

are you using the "Main out"  set to line level ?   is there any reference to whether thats +4 or -10 ? (cant see if you've already answered that)

ICBM

Looking at the schematic, there isn’t going to be a lot of gain from the FX return into the phase inverter, so I would expect the loop to be fairly high level and need quite a hot signal to give the full power when used as an input.

Why not just plug into the front of the amp with a clean sound?

Voxman

ICBM said:

Looking at the schematic, there isn’t going to be a lot of gain from the FX return into the phase inverter, so I would expect the loop to be fairly high level and need quite a hot signal to give the full power when used as an input.

Why not just plug into the front of the amp with a clean sound?

The problem is it's single channel so you don't get a huge amount of clean headroom and the volume set clean is of course lower. The other problem is you get preamp colouration so clashes with amp modelling. Going through the front end is fine for just using Pod Go for fx, but not ideal with amp models. 

It's no biggie as I was just experimenting on the off chance I might want to use that combination for a small gig as the Cub is a nice size. But I actually gig with Headrush FRFR powered speakers and I have a Marshall Valvestate 8080 that has front access fx loop and is really loud. 

It was just a post to see if I was missing anything, and the heads up re jack in the15w input was really helpful, thankyou.