Transcribing - write it down or not?

allen

I've been having a real go at practicing my transcribing skills this weekend.

My goal is to really feel chord changes so that eventually I can just hear a song and play it instantly.

When I've done this in the past I've used a notebook by my side to write down the bits that I've got - especially if I'm having trouble with a specific bit.

But this weekend I have been working on feeling the changes 100% - so no writing down. First thing that surprised me was that after doing a few songs I had forgotten the first one I had done when I went back to it.

This made me think that maybe that's a good thing, because my goal is to hear something and then play it - not to hear something and write it down and learn it. So each time I go back to a previous song I am having to search my 'inner ear' to listen for the changes and I am hoping that this is much more helpful than just going back and looking at my previous chord chart while I play along with the music.

What do you guys do? Use a pen and paper when transcribing or just 'feel it' every time?

Sporky

I'm not sure it is transcribing if you don't write it down.

Writing stuff down is better for remembering it, as you've found.

Being able to hear your way around music is also useful.

Roland

I write guitar parts down, not because I might forget by the next day, but because I will certainly have forgotten in five years time. Writing it down also helps forming memories. Over the years I’ve used pencil and stave paper (easy to lose), TabEdit (now obsolete), and recently MuseScore https://musescore.com/. 

For complete songs I use a word processor, and paste in screen grabs from MuseScore.

One useful benefit of software like MuseScore is that you can play back the music to make sure that you’ve got the phrasing right. A lot of people stumble over incidentals and triplets, and other phases where there are more notes than fit into a 4:4 interpretation of the bar. Playback helps you sort this out.

allen

Sporky said:

I'm not sure it is transcribing if you don't write it down.

Writing stuff down is better for remembering it, as you've found.

Being able to hear your way around music is also useful.

Ha. Good point about it not being transcribing if I'm not writing it down. It's not really transcribing more like 'ear training'. I would really like my ears to hear what the music is doing. For example, just this weekend I'm getting fairly okay at hearing the IV in the progression. 

digitalkettle

If you 'write' it down into Guitar Pro, you can play it back and hear if you got it right*

* melody and rhythm

relic245

allen said:

I've been having a real go at practicing my transcribing skills this weekend.

My goal is to really feel chord changes so that eventually I can just hear a song and play it instantly.

When I've done this in the past I've used a notebook by my side to write down the bits that I've got - especially if I'm having trouble with a specific bit.

But this weekend I have been working on feeling the changes 100% - so no writing down. First thing that surprised me was that after doing a few songs I had forgotten the first one I had done when I went back to it.

This made me think that maybe that's a good thing, because my goal is to hear something and then play it - not to hear something and write it down and learn it. So each time I go back to a previous song I am having to search my 'inner ear' to listen for the changes and I am hoping that this is much more helpful than just going back and looking at my previous chord chart while I play along with the music.

What do you guys do? Use a pen and paper when transcribing or just 'feel it' every time?

I don't know which is better but I'm seriously impressed with your skill level of being able to do that. I think I'd struggle even at a very rudimentary level. 

viz

When you get to a certain level, most pop songs are simple enough not to have to actually pysically write them down down. Jazz maybe not, but pop and rock certainly. But you should THINK as though you’re writing it down. Appply active listening techniques. And it’s very VERY good practice to do it when you’re starting off. 

Danny1969

I can chart a songs chord sequence quite easily if it's basic rock. pop or country and reasonably diatonic (accepting a few borrowed chords) I only chart the numbers then I use the chart to play it in any key. Because I do the same songs in different bands with singers who have vastly different ranges it would be pointless to write down chords. 

Some songs are more of a challenge. I've just done Walk out to winter by Aztec Camera ... that's the kind of song where the chord changes on every bar and the quality of the chords vary through basic, maj7, dom7, slash chords etc so it took me a while to get it properly. 



One trick I leant a long time ago is to  recognise a cadence  because songwriters will use the perfect and plagal constantly, whether they know it or not. Take Wizard's " I wish it could be Christmas every day"  ... as I expect a few of us were brushing up on that in December. It's a constant barrage of perfect cadences ... 5's to 1's. You get to recognise these instantly. 

You might also notice the same tricks come around again. At the moment the 1, maj3 (borrowed) 4 then minor 4 is very popular in pop music and this is something we have seen before from the Hollies to Radiohead etc.  

For shorthand I just use numbers and as everything is taken as major (for minor just use the relative maj key numbers ) there's no issues in general. 

For really riffy songs though that use a lot of open string,  all bets are off and it can take quite a bit of work to move a key

Lestratcaster

I make charts for my learners, whether its in guitar chords format or tab (with rhythms). Its quicker though if you can hear what is happening as when people try to read it on a piece of paper more often than not they can't read it quick enough to play and keep up.

HAL9000

I usually just play along with the piece until I’ve got it. Once I’ve worked it out I rarely bother to write it down - I’m fortunate in that once I’ve learned a piece I can usually remember the gist of it even if it’s a few years later.

mrkb

digitalkettle said:

If you 'write' it down into Guitar Pro, you can play it back and hear if you got it right*

* melody and rhythm

Guitar pro is brilliant for this. The latest version allows MP3s to be imported, so you can play your transcription along with the original to develop your notation skills and check against the track, and also puts rhythm notation info along with the tab. It’s the best money I’ve spent for developing my playing ability.

Cranky

If you heard it, you heard it.  

Hearing it and remembering are separate things.

Writing it down and then remembering what you wrote doesn’t mean that you didn’t hear it first.

joeW

Writing it down is super helpful imv - you can look back over several songs and start to really see the repeated trends more easily.

also rather than putting down the pen try putting down the guitar and see if you can listen to a tune and transcribe it - then you can play back what you have written down and see if it works.  Obvs the starting note doesn't matter - more of a relative harmonic experiment.  I am horrible at this - like really utterly useless, but apparently it gets easier with practise and has actually helped my ear skills.

allen

joeW said:

also rather than putting down the pen try putting down the guitar and see if you can listen to a tune and transcribe it - then you can play back what you have written down and see if it works.  Obvs the starting note doesn't matter - more of a relative harmonic experiment.  I am horrible at this - like really utterly useless, but apparently it gets easier with practise and has actually helped my ear skills.

I like that idea, but right now that is beyond my skill level. I think that is what my initial practice idea is about though - forcing myself to 'hear' the changes without playing it first to hear it back.

allen

viz said:

When you get to a certain level, most pop songs are simple enough not to have to actually pysically write them down down. Jazz maybe not, but pop and rock certainly. But you should THINK as though you’re writing it down. Appply active listening techniques. And it’s very VERY good practice to do it when you’re starting off. 

That's exactly what I'm going for - being able to play the chords for (fairly simple) pop and rock songs without any help.

robinbowes

Danny1969 said:

Some songs are more of a challenge. I've just done Walk out to winter by Aztec Camera ... that's the kind of song where the chord changes on every bar and the quality of the chords vary through basic, maj7, dom7, slash chords etc so it took me a while to get it properly. 

That's one I did recently. I'd be interested in seeing what you came up with.

R.

allen

I've just had a listen to the first 30 seconds of that. Blimey - good luck!

robinbowes

allen said:

I've just had a listen to the first 30 seconds of that. Blimey - good luck!

It's not as hard as it looks. They're fairly standard jazz chords/progressions (Roddy Frame apparently read a jazz guitar book and decided to write a song using the new chords he's learned!)

allen

robinbowes said:

allen said:

I've just had a listen to the first 30 seconds of that. Blimey - good luck!

It's not as hard as it looks. They're fairly standard jazz chords/progressions (Roddy Frame apparently read a jazz guitar book and decided to write a song using the new chords he's learned!)

Actually, I don't know many Aztec Camera songs and I could hear a couple of chords that are in other songs by them - so I see your point.

allen

relic245 said:

I don't know which is better but I'm seriously impressed with your skill level of being able to do that. I think I'd struggle even at a very rudimentary level. 

If you can play barre chords then you have all that you need to give it a go. I used to do it with slow down software, but at the moment I am trying to do it at full speed - way harder!

There must be a youtube on how to do it. If there isn't I'll do one and show you my very basic technique.

Actually, I just looked it up and this one isn't bad

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtY6Nv7E0g

The Rick Beato video is terrible

EricTheWeary

I was watching that thing Tom Bukovac did with Rick Beato. First thing he did was write down the changes (I’m guessing in Nashville number system) and copy that to the other musicians. World class session musicians but ears and memory not enough if you’ve only just heard the song. 

I’ve certainly worked out and then written chord changes down (sometimes even correctly)although only simple stuff as I was never great at it. Don’t think I ever wrote down any kind of tab for a riff or lick (probably a shame). 

I used to treat it like a jigsaw, corners first. That is, often I’d write down lyrics and song structure (intro, first verse, second verse, chorus,etc) which was helpful and good for concentrated listening. I could then try to get the key or first chords and work my way from there because it was more in my head. Songs I thought I knew how they went because I  had heard them on the radio 500 times invariably I didn’t really know at all.