Technophobe - Soundcraft external router setup

roundthebend

I'm at a loss, despite working as a Software Engineer for 25 years and having done a little bit of network fiddling in the past, this has totally stumped me.

I've got a Soundcraft Ui16. I've been connecting to it wirelessly but it's a bit glitchy - loses connection frequently and goes out of range very easily.

So I bought a secondhand TP-Link WR802N (v2) nano router. It's a dinky little thing. I've reset it to factory settings and I can access the administration screens just fine via 192.168.0.1.

Following some instructions, I've enabled the LAN connection on the Ui and set it with a manual IP of my choosing. I've opted for an IP which is within the DHCP range specified in the TP-Link settings.

I've saved the settings in both. Rebooted both. Then, I connect my iPad to the router using WiFi, and try the IP address that I configured on the Soundcraft. I get nothing - page fails to load. At one point the router's IP was loading up the Soundcraft's web app to control the mixer. Crazy, because that made it difficult to back into the admin screen!

I've tried adding the Soundcraft as a reserved address in the DHCP settings, but I must have the MAC address wrong as it never shows up.

Can anyone here explain what all these settings mean and guide me to victory?

Snags

You don't say anywhere that you've attached the Soundcraft to the router's wireless network ...

If you're using a cable (implied by the comment about enabling the LAN connection), don't hard code the IP, unless you do it outside the DHCP pool and supply the correct subnet and gateway info. 

Set the soundcraft to use DHCP and let the router dish out an address.

Then log in to the router and look at the leases to find out the IP and set that lease to be reserved (means it will always be given to the Soundcraft).

If you set a fixed address within the DHCP pool range you're asking for future trouble and you're also making life harder for yourself if you're not confident with networking. 

Snags

Oh, yeah. If you're using WiFi too the router on the pad and a cable from the router to the Sound craft, your also need to check

- you've plugged the cable into a LAN socket not a WAN socket on the router
- you haven't configured the WiFi on the router to prevent access to the wired LAN. This shouldn't be the default config, but it is possible to do this on some routers (there are reasons you may want to)

roundthebend

Thanks @Snags;  ;

Yes, I've connected the Soundcraft by ethernet cable to the router. There is only a LAN socket on the Ui16 so no confusion potential there.

When you say "log into the router and look at the leases" I guess this is in the DHCP settings. I'll have a look, but I wasn't seeing anything show up.

roundthebend

Nope, still baffled.
I've reset the router again. And set the Soundcraft back to DHCP mode on the LAN config.
When I plug it into the router, the light on the router stops flashing which suggests that it has found a network to latch onto.

But nothing is showing up in the DHCP leases. Other than my laptop which I'm using to administer the router settings.

Snags

I've just looked up the router you're using and I think you've got the wrong tool for the job. 

I could be wrong, as I've not checked the manual, but I'm not convinced the RJ45 on the router acts as a LAN port. Not fully, anyway. 

Can you join the Soundcraft to other wireless networks, or will it only broadcast its own?

I might have an old router that would work in a box of junk somewhere. 

Danny1969

Did you try just extending the aerial on the Soundcraft with a cable ?

If you get that off the floor then the range is generally much improved. 

Are both devices trying to act as DHCP server ? 

Other tips in general. Get the router or the aerial off the floor, best place is on top of the FOH speakers. Stop the router from broadcasting its SSID to the public. 

Snags

@roundthebend I've just downloaded the manual for the router you've got, and it basically won't work for what you want, unless the Soundcraft desk can be attached to any old WiFi.

The TP-Link gizmo you've got is designed to work in various modes, and the ones where it's single RJ45 socket come into play are ones where it won't act as a DHCP server or router, as it's bridging the connected device to a pre-existing network, which in your case doesn't exist unless there's another router in the mix.

What you want is a bog standard ethernet router (or even an ADSL/VDSL router if you're ignoring the WAN/Internet side) so you can run a cable from the built-in switch on one of those routers to the Soundcraft, and then connect to the router via cable or wireless from your other devices.

Cheapo option would be something like TP-LINK TL-WR841N V14, or you could go a bit upmarket.

If you need to have Internet access as well via the router then you're going to need to get a 3/4/5G capable device and a SIM, so something like the TL-MR6400.

Note I've gone with TP-Link models for consistency; personally I'm not mad keen on their kit, but it is ubiquitous, so ...

roundthebend

Really? I'm sure I've heard others are using it for this job. It would explain why the ethernet connection doesn't show up in DHCP.

Thanks for such an effort to research on my behalf.

I've got another router to try, it's just that it's huge and won't fit in the case I've built. But it might prove the concept.

I'm not going to give up, my basic understanding says it could be possible. The Soundcraft runs a web server and can broadcast on its own WiFi network or can connect to other networks over WiFi or LAN.

This router, I thought, is designed to use in many situations including connecting to hotel networks with a cable. That feels like what I'm trying to do here. 

roundthebend

The other thing giving me hope is that it was kinda working at one point. Not how I expected it wanted it.

The router IP 192.168.0.1 was serving up the Soundcraft website. And the router address tplinkwifi.net was doing the same. That made it difficult to get to the admin screen. I'm not even sure how I managed it in the end.

digitalscream

OK, you need to think about what the router's doing. It's entire job is to act as the gateway between one network (your local network) and another one (the Internet, largely-speaking).

That router's wifi is the local network, which you're attaching to with your iPad. This local network is where the DHCP addresses are leased etc.

Everything on the other side of the RJ45 connection (the WAN port) is what the router treats as "the Internet". It cannot assign addresses to this network - it's a client, and thus expects many things of what's there (not least that it will give the router a DHCP address, but also likely that the addresses over there are public rather than private).

That's why it's not working - the mixer is expecting to be on a local network along with your iPad, but you've put them on two separate networks with a router in between, and that router doesn't understand how to get from one to the other because there's nothing managing the network on the "Internet" side - it's not behaving like a WAN, because all you've got there is a mixer that's expecting to be on the LAN side.

What you need is a router with ethernet ports on the LAN (local) side as well as the WAN side.

This will do what you want:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GL-iNet-GL-AR300M16-Ext-external-Pre-installed-Performance/dp/B07794JRC5

It has wifi, for your iPad, but also two ethernet ports - one for WAN, and (critically) one for LAN. You'd plug your mixer into the LAN port, connect your iPad to the wifi, and it'll just work.

Snags

If the Soundcraft can connect to other WiFi networks, put your router in WiFi router mode and join the Soundcraft to it. Done.

When the router you've bought is in "client" mode it basically acts like a WiFi card in a computer, but is attached via ethernet not internal. So it let's the thing connected to it connect to other WiFi networks, but that means there has to BE another WiFi network for it to connect to. It's bridging not routing in that instance 

digitalscream

Snags said:

If the Soundcraft can connect to other WiFi networks, put your router in WiFi router mode and join the Soundcraft to it. Done.

Fair point - I thought he'd already tried that given the "bit glitchy" bit, but now that I've read your comment he was probably using the mixer's built-in network.

roundthebend

I'm making some sense of what you chaps are saying but it isn't quite linking up in my head. And I'm clinging onto the belief that others have used this router for the job, and that I've seen my Soundcraft interface using a device that was connected to the router over WiFi.

But it's very possible I had confused myself at that point and did something different.

I hate stuff like this. I'm clever enough to solve complex software problems, and even have some network experience, but I just can't get it clear enough to be useful.

I'm going out to watch Scotland v Italy in the rugby, and I'll try again later.

digitalscream

roundthebend said:

And I'm clinging onto the belief that others have used this router for the job, and that I've seen my Soundcraft interface using a device that was connected to the router over WiFi.

It's not impossible to make it work with a wired connection, but it would be complex - you'd likely have to set a static IP address on the Soundcraft, then set up a custom route on the router to handle a static network on the WAN side. And that's if the router even supports such things (most consumer devices don't, or obfuscate it, or are missing some critical option that prevents it being useful).

If you really want to set it up like that, with a wired connection, send the router back and buy the one I linked to above. It will be vastly simpler. Otherwise, try connecting to the router you've got with wifi on the Soundcraft, as @Snags said, and see if it's more reliable.

PolarityMan

digitalscream said:

OK, you need to think about what the router's doing. It's entire job is to act as the gateway between one network (your local network) and another one (the Internet, largely-speaking).

That router's wifi is the local network, which you're attaching to with your iPad. This local network is where the DHCP addresses are leased etc.

Everything on the other side of the RJ45 connection (the WAN port) is what the router treats as "the Internet". It cannot assign addresses to this network - it's a client, and thus expects many things of what's there (not least that it will give the router a DHCP address, but also likely that the addresses over there are public rather than private).

That's why it's not working - the mixer is expecting to be on a local network along with your iPad, but you've put them on two separate networks with a router in between, and that router doesn't understand how to get from one to the other because there's nothing managing the network on the "Internet" side - it's not behaving like a WAN, because all you've got there is a mixer that's expecting to be on the LAN side.

What you need is a router with ethernet ports on the LAN (local) side as well as the WAN side.

This will do what you want:

https://www.amazon.co.uk/GL-iNet-GL-AR300M16-Ext-external-Pre-installed-Performance/dp/B07794JRC5

It has wifi, for your iPad, but also two ethernet ports - one for WAN, and (critically) one for LAN. You'd plug your mixer into the LAN port, connect your iPad to the wifi, and it'll just work.

We have the ui24, never had an issue with the onboard wifi yet but for 30 quid I'm pretty tempted to pick up one of these just in case. Other option since we run tracks off a laptop that usually sits on top of the PA would be to just plug the laptop into the sound craft via lan as it's not super critical if we lose phone access to it.

PolarityMan

As a side topic, anyone got tips for improving wireless reliability for IEMs. Is there such a thing as antennae boosters etc?

roundthebend

I’m confused about what this WR802n router is for then!?
Only cost me £11 delivered.

It says it can do the following. I’d assumed one of those would be useful. Maybe this is my cue to learn more.

Working Modes	Router Mode Access Point Mode Range Extender Mode Client Mode Hotspot Mode (WISP Mode)

Snags

It can do lots of things that can be useful, but some of them involve mutually exclusive behaviours. I'm not sure I've got the energy to type it all out on a phone

As Lee says, you might be able to persuade it to do what you want, but you really need to understand what you're doing for that and it will be a bit of a lash-up.

One question: can your Soundcraft join any wireless network? Like a laptop does? If the answer is 'yes" then you can make it all work easily without a cable. If the answer is no then for an easy life I would just get a conventional router with a 4-port switch on the back which will instantly do exactly what you want. 

If you really want to understand it all I'd be happy to have a phone call sometime. 

Snags

roundthebend said:

I’m confused about what this WR802n router is for then!?
Only cost me £11 delivered.

It says it can do the following. I’d assumed one of those would be useful. Maybe this is my cue to learn more.

Working Modes	Router Mode Access Point Mode Range Extender Mode Client Mode Hotspot Mode (WISP Mode)

Actually, let's have a go. 

ROUTER MODE it will act as a router for wireless devices. The rj45 (probably) becomes the WAN port.

ACCESS POINT you can plug it in to a wired network and it will add wireless capability. It does not route (as such) but let's wireless devices attach to a wired network. Rj45 is it's link to the LAN. Something else handles routing and addressing. 

RANGE EXTENDER it relays an existing wireless network

CLIENT MODE it acts as a bridge, not a router. It bridges a single non-wireless device (via the rj45) in to a wireless network. In this mode it's basically transparent and is an extension of the device it's bridging for. 

HOTSPOT I'm guessing it has a SIM? So it will route wireless devices like using your phone as a hotspot, but the gizmo becomes the phone. 

So the routing modes don't support connection to a LAN device via cable.

All of the above is informed guesswork as I don't know your specific device, but I know the type of device, and that's how they work. 

Or, in short, use a different router

digitalscream

roundthebend said:

I’m confused about what this WR802n router is for then!?

As @Snags explained, it's for a number of things...but specifically the router modes, its primary purpose is to "route" traffic from its wifi network (LAN) to the Internet (WAN).

None of the modes it supports are useful for the specific use case you want - which is attaching a wired device and a wireless device to the same network. That's your problem.

So, your choice is either connect both of your devices to that router's wifi network, or use a different router that supports both wired and wireless connections on the LAN side.