How to sell a guitar, lesson 1: insult the customer

DiscoStu

I don't think I've been a 'deuche' before?

I asked a question and it didn't go down too well. I'll live...

Fake Fender content:

https://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=oa.652660791519061&type=1

Handsome_Chris

Surely the more deuche thing is selling moody gear?  I am willing to be told otherwise.

DiscoStu

And if he's on facebook and it's his guitar, why has he got someone else to advertise it for him?
His attitude just isn't cool.

Shame, as it's a nice looking - and sounding - guitar.

DefaultM

I don't think you came off well either there to be honest.
He's trying to sell a guitar, you were having what was a polite conversation, but then you used the phrase 'churning out fake fenders' which gives the reader/potential buyer an image of a low quality Chinese factory.
I can understand why he got annoyed.

viz

Apart from restoration of the decal itself, surely it can never be ok to buy a decal for an object that you don't have the rights to, and then sell it as an original? A non-endorsed luthier has no business in acquiring fender logos. Even if you sell it as a 'fake', partscaster or whatever, you have no control over it in the market where it could be used deceptively, which is why letting a counterfeit loose into the world is wrong, even when it's not done for immediate financial gain, IMO.

Cirrus

If he was saying it's a fender I think you'd have a point but as far as I can tell he said exactly who made it and when quizzed explained why it had a Fender logo. As far as I can see he was being totally above board. If there was some deception involved I think you'd have a fair point but I don't see it. The seller's only mistake was calling names when he should have ignored you.

randomhandclaps

Makes no sense to me.  Surely if he thought you were Dutch your name would be Van Conachie, not Mc?!!

boogieman

The seller might be honest about its roots, but that doesn't mean the next person to sell it on will be. I'm a bit puzzled too as to why a reputable luthier would put a fake logo on his work. Something definitely off here.

littlethoughts

boogieman said:

The seller might be honest about its roots, but that doesn't mean the next person to sell it on will be. I'm a bit puzzled too as to why a reputable luthier would put a fake logo on his work. Something definitely off here.

I'm not bothered about calling it a fake, but I do wonder about the likelihood of this actually being made by Ransom.

It does whiff a bit of "take my word for it". Like, I got a really respected guitar maker to put this together, but rather than put his own name on it I wanted him to use a Fender logo. He was fine with not advertising his own work.

However, if he had the paperwork to back it up then that would make everything run a lot smoother for me!

sinbaadi

I suppose I could understand why somebody might like the Fender logo more aesthetically than another logo, and I suppose I understand that a small volume builder might not wish to lose business purely because the customer doesn't like the logo.  

Delivering a blank headstock is one thing, but actually putting the Fender decal on before delivery of the guitar?  Reputation killer, regardless of the quality of the guitar.

Drew_TNBD

I bet you it wasn't built by Ransom and is just a chopshop to get the seller a quick £550.

carlos

It's Tuesday morning and I'm agreeing with Drew!

DiscoStu

DefaultM said:

I don't think you came off well either there to be honest.
He's trying to sell a guitar, you were having what was a polite conversation, but then you used the phrase 'churning out fake fenders' which gives the reader/potential buyer an image of a low quality Chinese factory.
I can understand why he got annoyed.

I can see why you might think that and I got annoyed with myself for getting annoyed at the ad, BUT, if that guitar was advertised on here the forum police would be all over it.
It's one thing to fake a guitar for your own use but to sell it on is fraud. The only thing I will say in his defence is that he did not advertise it as a 'Fender Stratocaster' although it has been described as a 'Danny Ransom (Fender)' guitar. That kinda looks like Ransom is a Fender luthier, lending some authenticity to the logo.

I do wonder if it's a partscaster (which I would have no problem with) but he's trying to pass it off as a custom built guitar using the name of a small American luthier to give it credit. It's a curious one!

Forge

Drew_fx said:

I bet you it wasn't built by Ransom and is just a chopshop to get the seller a quick £550.

I think this sums it up. When I sweat on a partscaster for my own use I put my own decal rather than giving credit to Fender for my hard work. I would imagine a luthier would think along the same lines x10 and at best would deliver without a logo.

badlydrawnbanjo

I'd be careful, Mr Pendergrast's been hitting the gym hard by the looks of it.

DiscoStu

yeah I noticed that! Personally I believe I am the bigger man.

randomhandclaps

badlydrawnbanjo said:

I'd be careful, Mr Pendergrast's been hitting the gym hard by the looks of it.

Classic Guitaroid Rage IMO!

Strat_a_tat_tat

If a buyer simply must have the Fender logo... they should buy a Fender.  Simples.

Can't see any justification for putting a F logo on a guitar made by someone else. It's probably illegal... and definitely dodgy on moral grounds.

Skipped

I am fascinated by the very different approaches of two forums.....LPF and MLPF.

LPF: No tolerance of counterfeit guitars. No tolerance of  any guitar bearing a Gibson logo which was not manufactured by Gibson. Regardless of price point.

MLPF: Seem quite happy to allow forum members to post fake Les Pauls and to discuss the guitars and the guitar builder in great detail. In fact there is a section for "Replicas".  Headstock shots not allowed. They also allow owners of said guitars to post (disrupt?) in other forum sections. It is OK to say to another forum member: "Why don't you get a replica instead?"

My thoughts are: The second approach is disrespectful to Les Paul (never mind Gibson). Also....I believe that a Replica is an item made by the original maker. In fact this is the dictionary definition.

Our (very young and very beautiful) forum may be able to get by without a defined position because we are discussing.....er.....Fretted Instruments. But that may not always be the case if we have a couple of "awkward" moments in the Classifieds.
Any thoughts?

not_the_dj

Skipped said:

Our (very young and very beautiful) forum may be able to get by without a defined position because we are discussing.....er.....Fretted Instruments. But that may not always be the case if we have a couple of "awkward" moments in the Classifieds.
Any thoughts?

There was an adolfhipster/chibson thread that got a bit heated ;-) 

Also when that Gil Yaron '59 turned up in the classifieds...I don't recall that getting nasty at all (it didn't have GIbson on the headstock IIRC), but it opened up the discussion

badlydrawnbanjo

not_the_dj said:

Skipped said:

Our (very young and very beautiful) forum may be able to get by without a defined position because we are discussing.....er.....Fretted Instruments. But that may not always be the case if we have a couple of "awkward" moments in the Classifieds.
Any thoughts?

There was an adolfhipster/chibson thread that got a bit heated ;-) 

Also when that Gil Yaron '59 turned up in the classifieds...I don't recall that getting nasty at all (it didn't have GIbson on the headstock IIRC), but it opened up the discussion

There's also been a few lovely looking JXG builds posted that have that have had the G logo on as well.