NPD: weird Fuzz face, expertise requested!

Choivert

Can anyone shed any light on this pedal? The casting marks on the inside being HJM 3316, I think suggest it is a version 4 enclosure. The transistors are bc209c's but the circuit board is homemade and appears to be using a LT700 transformer as pickup simulator as well as a standard silicion FF circuit on the left hand side of the board. I think the components on the board date to 60s/70s (tropical fish capacitor, resistors and transistors look about right), no idea about a LT700 labelled "SS" and "JAPAN". I don't think anything else except the battery clip and battery connector are original (perhaps the orange style knobs as they fit with the right era). 

 It has been sprayed black (and the dallas arbiter smiley is a printed photo underneath the beard). Should I attempt to strip the paint from this? If so suggestions on how to remove the paint. There doesn't appear to be any of the original sticker under the paint I'm guessing the pedal was original silver since the inside is not painted. 

Let me know what you think or know about it. 

Thanks!

soma1975

Never seen anything like it. 

So the transformer is lowering the input impedance of the pedal so it plays nice with other things?

Maybe it's a Roger Mayer prototype stolen from Jimi and hidden in plain sight all these years?

Those chunky resistors look mad. Like they could explode any minute. 

How does it sound? 

It's weird because the quality of soldering and lack of any text on the board suggest a  homebrew experiment but the addition of the transformer and circuit suggest a decent knowledge of how these things work, which if it is as old as it looks, probably wasn't all that many people at the time. 

EDIT: The switch must be more recent relative to the rest of it, unless it's had a very hard life. 

Kurtis

Looks cool!


One thing is some of the soldering looks newer than other parts so I'd guess (could well be wrong) that it's been worked on at some point.

Actually, most of the wire looks modern. The grey bit going to the battery clip looks original.
Sockets, pots, and switch too.


EDIT sorry I just reread the op and take it you know this already. 

Choivert

I thought exactly the same thing. The soldering is so shonkily put together, the underlying track are rough as hell. However, I can't find any reference to a transformer used as a pickup simulator until here: https://www.muzique.com/lab/pickups.htm

which seems to be 2002, so whoever put this together had a good idea of what they were doing?

Choivert

soma1975 said:

Never seen anything like it. 

So the transformer is lowering the input impedance of the pedal so it plays nice with other things?

Maybe it's a Roger Mayer prototype stolen from Jimi and hidden in plain sight all these years?

Those chunky resistors look mad. Like they could explode any minute. 

How does it sound? 

It's weird because the quality of soldering and lack of any text on the board suggest a  homebrew experiment but the addition of the transformer and circuit suggest a decent knowledge of how these things work, which if it is as old as it looks, probably wasn't all that many people at the time. 

EDIT: The switch must be more recent relative to the rest of it, unless it's had a very hard life. 

I think the transformer is acting as a false pickup which means the input impedance is the same, independent of what is in front of it. (This is just a guess though and I haven't digested the actual circuit). 

Yeah, the chunky resistors, Mullard stripey cap are really cool! I do hope they don't explode though. 

To me it sounds great, it doesn't clean up amazingly well (usable but not perfect) but the fuzz/gain is vast and you get a lot of different usable tones out of the volume. I haven't tried it with different pedals yet, so will be worth having a go to see how the 'buffer' (or more accurately 'anti buffer') works.

The switch is much newer I think and I know the tech in the shop fixed it, but it has clearly been fixed quite a few different times. (The tracks on the back are slightly different and there are a lot of patch leads put in). The jacks are different too, one is a Cliff jack. It is a real odd case. Would be amazing for this to be a Mayer prototype but it seems surprising that his work would be so shoddy, even if he was doing things quickly tbh...

soma1975

Would love to hear a clip even if it's just a phone recording. 

Choivert

I'll get a recording or two (will have to be on phone) over the weekend. 

Any suggestions on whether to keep paint or leave it? If I want to strip it is brake fluid a good shout, will of course test on a small section first. 

soma1975

I would just paint over it with a hammered finish. 

This is one I did a while back which another Fretboarder now owns. 2 Coats with a paint brush then I wire wooled it back to a more matte finish. was lovely and shiny when originally done. Decals from a place in the US. 

ICBM

The PCB and all the components apart from the pots and switch look authentic late-60s to me, not home-made - PCBs really did look like that, with the traces entirely covered with solder. I don't know what the circuit is but I would be *very* wary of doing anything to it until you've found out conclusively.

soma1975

I'd ask on TGP and you will no doubt have someone saying it is the missing Band of Gypsys Fuzz and offering you £100,000 for it. 

soma1975

ICBM said:

The PCB and all the components apart from the pots and switch look authentic late-60s to me, not home-made - PCBs really did look like that, with the traces entirely covered with solder. I don't know what the circuit is but I would be *very* wary of doing anything to it until you've found out conclusively.

Agree completely it looks old-old I just don't think there were any commercially available variations of the circuit doing this with transformers back at that point., to the point I'd originally assumed it was an Octavio circuit which did have one and also had 3 transistors. 

Which is why I reckon it was possibly done on request by someone specifically for an individual. 

andrewaward

Agreed that circuit is not home made , looks like a lot of 60s pedals , colorsound, shin-ei, etc 

Could be a rehoused circuit , but not sure what it is / was.

Choivert

ICBM said:

The PCB and all the components apart from the pots and switch look authentic late-60s to me, not home-made - PCBs really did look like that, with the traces entirely covered with solder. I don't know what the circuit is but I would be *very* wary of doing anything to it until you've found out conclusively.

Thanks for the advice. Any idea how I might go out finding what it is conclusively? I'm struggling to find any old fuzz circuits with a transformer in them. I'm not planning to modify or change the circuit as it sounds good to me.

As Soma suggested, I will post on TGP.  

Either way, very happy with a cool and weird pedal. 

breadfan

I’d suggest contacting Nick from Fuzzboxes.org.

His site has a pretty extensive section on the Fuzz Face. (It’s brilliant for Tone Benders too, btw!)

https://fuzzboxes.org/fuzzface

There’s also a page where you can upload pics and details about your pedal.

https://fuzzboxes.org/shareyourfuzz

He used to post a lot on the D*A*M forum- that would be another good place to post, more so than TGP. 

@soma1975 That refinish looks great. It’s tempting me to give my JHF1 a new paint job!

soma1975

Cheers man. Was super easy and I am usually awful at these things, as my placement of the in/out decals proves!.

Choivert

breadfan said:

I’d suggest contacting Nick from Fuzzboxes.org.

His site has a pretty extensive section on the Fuzz Face. (It’s brilliant for Tone Benders too, btw!)

https://fuzzboxes.org/fuzzface

There’s also a page where you can upload pics and details about your pedal.

https://fuzzboxes.org/shareyourfuzz

He used to post a lot on the D*A*M forum- that would be another good place to post, more so than TGP. 

@soma1975 That refinish looks great. It’s tempting me to give my JHF1 a new paint job!

Thank you for this. I've been in touch with Nick, who has actually seen the pedal before! 

I'm trying to reverse engineer the circuit. So far I have that the left hand side of the board is exactly a fuzz face circuit (components and resistors 100% match up) and the right hand side seems to connect at the fuzz 2 terminal. The components in the extra circuit are 2 diodes, a transformer (lt700) a transistor (bc183c) and two resistors (10k 1.5M). There are also four extra terminals on this side of the board that have tracks running to them but have no wires connected. It seems to me that with the transformer and two diodes this is an attempt to make a full wave rectifier but I can't quite see from the pcb that this is actually functioning like that. 

It is also hard to hear if the fuzz is creating an octave effect. I think I can hear it up the neck but there is so much gain it is hard to know. 

photek

Holy cow, anyone got a link to the TGP thread, Scott from BMF Effects just posted this:

Choivert

https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/npd-what-is-it.2545036/#post-38610262

Choivert

From what I read of the Metropolis forum, the modifications described by Dave and the modifications of the FF circuit in this use different components and attach themselves at different points. Of course lots of fuzz faces have been modified in many ways but I think we should temper our excitement. At least until we have the circuit reverse engineered.

Do you have a link to the post by Scott Kaye, photek? I'd like to read the comments.

jca74

You could always contact Roger Mayer and ask for his opinion: info@roger-mayer.co.uk

photek

Too late, I’m mega excited for you already 

Hope this works:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid06kJbo6E23Qq77VkeTUiXioZdiXM5BrDzVnd9SwgewsNpixFyC6ydraDBrX5VuV86l&id=100011341837786