Middle pickup recomendation to go with a SD STK-S7 in the neck??

Descalona

Hello,

I recently bought a Harley Benton Fusion III HSS and I plan to change the pickups, which are supposed to be the worst part of it.

I really like how people like Lari Basilio or Jack Thammarat sound with that neck pickup and I know for sure their sound doesn't come (just) from the pickup but I wanna try that. I use very often positions 2 and 4 so I'd like the middle pickup to complement well with the STK-S7 and whichever Humbucker I finally pick, but having bought the guitar plus the pricey neck pickup, my budget is a bit tight.

Any recommendation from people like GFS, Irongear, Tonerider, etc...? I mean decent pickups but not very expensive?

PS. By the way, I haven't bought yet the neck pickup but even if I'm convinced about it I would obviously consider other recommendations that sound similar

Thanks in advance

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdGoFq6yKjk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7PucVv-5t4

Funkfingers

The caption on the Lari Basilio video states that the middle pickup is a Seymour Duncan STK-S4m Vintage Stack for Stratocaster.

NOTE: Many of the Duncan Stack models employ neither flush rod magnet polepieces nor the vintage-style "stagger" pattern. Instead, the pole lengths follow a gentle curve designed to match modern fingerboard radii.

Arguably, a more important part of the sounds of Basilio and Thammarat comes from their choices of amplification and effects.

Descalona said:

Any recommendation from people like GFS, Irongear, Tonerider, etc ?

AFAIK, Tonerider does not offer noise-cancelling replacement pickups for Stratocaster.

IronGear has the Smoke Stack II. I would match a pair of these with a Blues Engine humbucker in the bridge position.*

Don't be misled by the published DC resistance statistics. The lower coil of a Stratocaster-sized stacked coils pickup contributes very little to the signal. 

This trio of pickups will work well with a 500k volume pot and no need for coil splittage when bridge + middle are selected.

* I also wanted to suggest the Tesla Shark humbucker but this is only available in the 50mm "Gibson" polepiece spacing.

Descalona

Thanks a lot man!! looking into those that you recommended! I appreciate it

Funkfingers

You should be able to obtain all three IronGear pickups for the price of that one Seymour Duncan. 

Unless you crave the appearance of a covered humbucker, order one with open bobbins. This would make it far easier to swap the bar magnet - should need arise.

Dave_Mc

I would wait and try the Roswells first- they're not bad. I haven't tried the Strat ones but I would suspect I might prefer them to stacks- not super-keen on how stacks sound. Obviously you're allowed to have a different opinion, though!

I'm also not super-keen on the Toneriders and Irongears I've tried, but admittedly I haven't tried that many. Not saying they're really any worse than the Roswells (and the Toneriders may be a little better), but not enough of an improvement for the money.

I think Entwistles are quite a bit better but they're hard to come by at the moment. And the build quality is arguably a bit worse (but sound is a lot better, at least on the few I've tried). They also do a noiseless one (which I haven't tried).

What I would actually do is keep an eye out on Ebay for UK-based handwinders who often sell off stuff for quite cheap. E.g. Toltec and Catswhisker often have stuff going for little more (or even less) than the likes of Tonerider, and their stuff is a *lot* better, at least in my opinion. That actually would be an upgrade (it would be a massive upgrade over Duncan, quite frankly, let alone Irongear/Tonerider, at least in my opinion), the only (admittedly pretty big!) problem being it's a bit up in the air whether they'll ever put up for sale the exact type of pickup you want.

Funkfingers said:

Arguably, a more important part of the sounds of Basilio and Thammarat comes from their choices of amplification and effects.

Agreed, and arguably as much if not more from how good players they are!

Funkfingers said:

IronGear has the Smoke Stack II. 

I think the original Smoke Stack might have been noiseless, but the new version isn't stacked at all, it's a tapped genuine single coil. I thought it was a bit middling... it does give you massive versatility, but at the expense of tone basically, I thought. It sounded a bit bland, for want of a better word. I haven't always been completely happy with pickup swaps I've done, but that's probably the only swap I've done where I thought the original pickups sounded better!

ToneControl

Kinman Nine-0 or kick in the arse

ToneControl

Dave_Mc said:

I would wait and try the Roswells first- they're not bad. I haven't tried the Strat ones but I would suspect I might prefer them to stacks- not super-keen on how stacks sound. Obviously you're allowed to have a different opinion, though!

I'm also not super-keen on the Toneriders and Irongears I've tried, but admittedly I haven't tried that many. Not saying they're really any worse than the Roswells (and the Toneriders may be a little better), but not enough of an improvement for the money.

I think Entwistles are quite a bit better but they're hard to come by at the moment. And the build quality is arguably a bit worse (but sound is a lot better, at least on the few I've tried). They also do a noiseless one (which I haven't tried).

What I would actually do is keep an eye out on Ebay for UK-based handwinders who often sell off stuff for quite cheap. E.g. Toltec and Catswhisker often have stuff going for little more (or even less) than the likes of Tonerider, and their stuff is a *lot* better, at least in my opinion. That actually would be an upgrade (it would be a massive upgrade over Duncan, quite frankly, let alone Irongear/Tonerider, at least in my opinion), the only (admittedly pretty big!) problem being it's a bit up in the air whether they'll ever put up for sale the exact type of pickup you want.

Funkfingers said:

Arguably, a more important part of the sounds of Basilio and Thammarat comes from their choices of amplification and effects.

Agreed, and arguably as much if not more from how good players they are!

Funkfingers said:

IronGear has the Smoke Stack II. 

I think the original Smoke Stack might have been noiseless, but the new version isn't stacked at all, it's a tapped genuine single coil. I thought it was a bit middling... it does give you massive versatility, but at the expense of tone basically, I thought. It sounded a bit bland, for want of a better word. I haven't always been completely happy with pickup swaps I've done, but that's probably the only swap I've done where I thought the original pickups sounded better!

The Roswell strat pickups are quite pleasant
The default Roswell HBs are disappointing: neck is always too mid-heavy, bridge too thin and weedy

Years ago I bought SD stacks, must say I thought they weren't good enough, lost a bit of crispness, whereas the Kinmans don't.

ToneControl

btw I recently bought the Fusion III HSH myself

Descalona

wow, thank guys!, now I've got a lot to think about

Descalona

ToneControl said:

btw I recently bought the Fusion III HSH myself

You happy with it??

Dave_Mc

ToneControl said:

The Roswell strat pickups are quite pleasant
The default Roswell HBs are disappointing: neck is always too mid-heavy, bridge too thin and weedy

Years ago I bought SD stacks, must say I thought they weren't good enough, lost a bit of crispness, whereas the Kinmans don't.

I wouldn't be surprised the Strat ones aren't too bad.

I agree about the HBs, pretty much exactly with your tonal assessment- I still think they're "pretty good for the price" (I think my HB SG sounded better with the stock Roswell humbucker pickups than my Gibson SG did with the stock 498T/490R set!), but they definitely could be better, and they're a bit unbalanced tonally, as you said. 

The Roswell P90 in my SG Jr is very good indeed, without any qualifier needed for price. It's the neck version, so it's pretty low output (around 7k) but apart from that it sounds really good indeed. I really don't think- as long as you like underwound P90s!- that there'd be any need to swap it at all, even for boutique stuff, unless you're incredibly picky.

I've got a vague recollection of trying some of the Duncan stacks in a Jackson ages ago and being really underwhelmed. I'm not that fond of any stacks, as I said above, but I think they were particularly poor. (I haven't tried Kinmans, but the Dimarzio ones I've tried- the older Virtual Vintage ones- weren't too bad, but still not as nice as "real" singles to my ears.)

ToneControl

Descalona said:

ToneControl said:

btw I recently bought the Fusion III HSH myself

You happy with it??

very well made, but the frets were rough - they had grooves in them, I offered to get it fixed, but they asked me to return it, then they sent another with better frets.
I polished the guitar, and set it up properly.
It plays like a PRS SE mostly. The neck is pretty chunky but I like that.
Not impressed with the pickups though

ToneControl

ToneControl said:

Kinman Nine-0 or kick in the arse

btw the other benefit with these is they are much louder than normal single coil, so a better match for a bridge HB

uksaint7

Can't help but think this middle pickup I just happen to have for sale would be go great with a SD STK-S7 in the neck 

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/comment/3800791/

ToneControl

ToneControl said:

Descalona said:

ToneControl said:

btw I recently bought the Fusion III HSH myself

You happy with it??

very well made, but the frets were rough - they had grooves in them, I offered to get it fixed, but they asked me to return it, then they sent another with better frets.
I polished the guitar, and set it up properly.
It plays like a PRS SE mostly. The neck is pretty chunky but I like that.
Not impressed with the pickups though

and the middle pickup is (of course) totally weedy compared to the HBs

ToneControl

Dave_Mc said:

ToneControl said:

The Roswell strat pickups are quite pleasant
The default Roswell HBs are disappointing: neck is always too mid-heavy, bridge too thin and weedy

Years ago I bought SD stacks, must say I thought they weren't good enough, lost a bit of crispness, whereas the Kinmans don't.

I wouldn't be surprised the Strat ones aren't too bad.

I agree about the HBs, pretty much exactly with your tonal assessment- I still think they're "pretty good for the price" (I think my HB SG sounded better with the stock Roswell humbucker pickups than my Gibson SG did with the stock 498T/490R set!), but they definitely could be better, and they're a bit unbalanced tonally, as you said. 

The Roswell P90 in my SG Jr is very good indeed, without any qualifier needed for price. It's the neck version, so it's pretty low output (around 7k) but apart from that it sounds really good indeed. I really don't think- as long as you like underwound P90s!- that there'd be any need to swap it at all, even for boutique stuff, unless you're incredibly picky.

I've got a vague recollection of trying some of the Duncan stacks in a Jackson ages ago and being really underwhelmed. I'm not that fond of any stacks, as I said above, but I think they were particularly poor. (I haven't tried Kinmans, but the Dimarzio ones I've tried- the older Virtual Vintage ones- weren't too bad, but still not as nice as "real" singles to my ears.)

I can't understand why manufacturers find it hard to source HBs that are wound a little less for the neck, and a little more for the bridge

ToneControl

just been looking on my parts shelves to finally upgrade my one.
Maybe an HB-sized P90 or similar, for the neck, or a Kinman Twangbucker I have already

ToneControl

ToneControl said:

Dave_Mc said:

ToneControl said:

The Roswell strat pickups are quite pleasant
The default Roswell HBs are disappointing: neck is always too mid-heavy, bridge too thin and weedy

Years ago I bought SD stacks, must say I thought they weren't good enough, lost a bit of crispness, whereas the Kinmans don't.

I wouldn't be surprised the Strat ones aren't too bad.

I agree about the HBs, pretty much exactly with your tonal assessment- I still think they're "pretty good for the price" (I think my HB SG sounded better with the stock Roswell humbucker pickups than my Gibson SG did with the stock 498T/490R set!), but they definitely could be better, and they're a bit unbalanced tonally, as you said. 

The Roswell P90 in my SG Jr is very good indeed, without any qualifier needed for price. It's the neck version, so it's pretty low output (around 7k) but apart from that it sounds really good indeed. I really don't think- as long as you like underwound P90s!- that there'd be any need to swap it at all, even for boutique stuff, unless you're incredibly picky.

I've got a vague recollection of trying some of the Duncan stacks in a Jackson ages ago and being really underwhelmed. I'm not that fond of any stacks, as I said above, but I think they were particularly poor. (I haven't tried Kinmans, but the Dimarzio ones I've tried- the older Virtual Vintage ones- weren't too bad, but still not as nice as "real" singles to my ears.)

I can't understand why manufacturers find it hard to source HBs that are wound a little less for the neck, and a little more for the bridge

look at this
Humbucker – Page 2 – Roswell Pickups
The HAF-N and HAF-B

The bridge one has more treble and less mids than the neck
?????

Dave_Mc

ToneControl said:

I can't understand why manufacturers find it hard to source HBs that are wound a little less for the neck, and a little more for the bridge

They actually are a bit less for the neck- at least on the two sets I've had my hands on. The official spec on the Roswell website states they're almost the same, but the two sets I measured were about 0.5k apart IIRC (bridge hotter in both cases). I know it's not just the resistance which matters, but if the wire gauge is the same it should be reasonably accurate, unless for some reason they're pulling the wire really tight and stretching it or something like that (?). 

But they still sound more mismatched tonally to my ears than they should be, even being as close as that in output. I have other pickups (better ones, admittedly) which are around that resistance apart, or even a bit less, and once the heights are adjusted to compensate for the volume difference they work a lot better tonally as a set.

ToneControl said:

look at this
Humbucker – Page 2 – Roswell Pickups
The HAF-N and HAF-B

The bridge one has more treble and less mids than the neck
?????

It must be something to do with the wind, though- I think you would expect the lower output one (the neck one) to have more treble and less mid if everything else were equal... I'm not a fan of having a warmer neck pickup and brighter bridge pickup. That exacerbates the tonal difference already there from the positions in the guitar and basically makes it too much of a difference to dial in a sound which works for both, at least for me.

EDIT: Also I'm kind of inclined to take a lot of their figures there with a pinch of salt- look at the figures for the covered version of that same pickup, the DC resistance is virtually the same as the uncovered ones, but the "output" figures are massively different!