Spain Scale choices

Axe_meister

So I've currently going through soloing over chords in my guitar lessons.
We've started on Spain by Chick Corea.
For the Initial GM7, G Lydian seems to fit well, and over the F#7 Phrygian Dominant for that spanish feel (it is called spain after all).
Over the Em/A/Dm (II V I), I'm using the D Major pentatonic.
I bit stuck on the next part C#7(#9) to F#7, do I just go C# Phrygian to F#Phrygian. 
This is then followed by Bm7 to B7. B Phrygian to B Phrygian Dominant?  

Suggestions welcome

GuyBoden

As jazz improvisers, we must endeavour to play by ear as easily as we can sing by ear.

This is probably a skill you already have, to some extent, so you just need to be familiar with any new chords changes by ear.

viz

Axe_meister said:

Over the Em/A/Dm (II V I), I'm using the D Major pentatonic.

Dm or D major?

I can’t remember the piece but the C#7(#9) to F#7 sounds / looks like a V-I(b7), so I’d do C#(alt) and F# mixolydian. 

Axe_meister

Sorry Dmajor

Axe_meister

Just confirmed with my teacher, C#alt to F# Phrygian dominant (to maintain a spanish feel)

Axe_meister

I'm just starting on this rabbit hole that is Jazz. Very slowly learning to navigate the Guitar neck fully, Still very much thinking root on 6th/5th/4th/1st string and intervals from each of these (using Pentatonic shapes as my skeleton) and from there creating my scales. 
Some bits of information are still missing, i.e. Phrygian Dominant is great if it resolves to a minor chord. I understand a lot of theory, it's just the application.
I'll mess around using Mixolydian vs Phrygian dominant over certain chords.
Sorry wife, for the bad Jazz with lots of gain that will be coming out of the loft.

Cranky

Yeah, the application part is tough.  I’m in the same spot.  Trying to transition from playing the chord changes/chord tones to playing modal changes from chord to chord.  Here you’re talking about shifting from major modes to harmonic minor modes.  Not easy at all, especially in real time.

And, are you sure you’re playing D major pentatonic, not D minor?

Brad

Axe_meister said:

Just confirmed with my teacher, C#alt to F# Phrygian dominant (to maintain a spanish feel)

Yep, your teacher is on the money here. 

Axe_meister said:

This is then followed by Bm7 to B7. B Phrygian to B Phrygian Dominant?  

I would suggest B Natural Minor (Aeolian) to B Phrygian Dominant (or Altered) here. 

Axe_meister said:

Over the Em/A/Dm (II V I), I'm using the D Major pentatonic.

D Major pentatonic works fine, but you run the risk of it sounding a little vague, not really hitting the changes of the ii V I. You could play each corresponding pentatonic (Em Pent over Em7, A Maj Pent over A7 and D Maj Pent on Dmaj7). 

You could think more ‘globally’, so D Maj over these chords, making sure you hit the relevant chord tones, or be more chord specific - E Dorian, A Alt, D Maj to delineate those changes. 

The problem with Spain, is that one scale kinda works over it all, yet it can also get pretty complicated too with the possibilities - you can swap any Phrygian Dominant for the Altered Scale for example. But that can lead to a bit of option paralysis, so be mindful. 

Brad

Another good thing to do is find the common tones in the changes. Pool the notes of the chords together and find which ones crop up often. 

Play, or preferably sing, a C# note through the chord changes. See how that works? Try other notes and see how they feel etc

Littlejonny

Some good advice here, although I have to say learning Spain when ‘just starting…jazz’ isn’t exactly getting into the shallow end right? 

What about some simpler jazz tunes? 

Axe_meister

This is what my guitar teacher has thrown at me. Doing a mix or arpeggios, Lydian, Dorian, half step whole step diminished and Altered scale as well as a few pentatonic runs.
Also currently playing a game where the teacher will play and shout out the chord name and then the interval I need to target.

Littlejonny

I tend to think in terms of arpeggios when playing on jazz tunes, unless clearly it’s a modal thing …like you, I’m learning. 

I now have almost complete connection between the guitar and my ear, in that I know what sound it makes when I put my fingers down, even larger intervals. 

But I’ve realised that the problem for me (jazz being my main focus currently) is that I don’t ‘hear jazz internally in the first place. I couldn’t sing you a decent jazz solo, so I can’t make one happen very easily on the guitar. Despite listening to jazz on and off all my life, it doesn’t feel like a native language. 

I’m guess this is where learning jazz ‘language’ comes in, which doesn’t seem to have a lot to do with scales, but with phrases. 

The nice thing about the approach you are currently taking is that you’re actually improvising. Many jazz musicians don’t improvise very openly (ok the really good ones do) but simply (I shouldn’t say simply - it’s actually really hard) piece together many pre-learnt phrases like a modular approach. 

Axe_meister

My problem is hearing the chord changes underneath and also thinking real time. I still have a long way to go in getting to know the fretboard and then the whole speed thing.
Although much faster than I was 6 months ago, I've still not fluid/fast enough to sound impressive, especially on a consistent basis.
When just noodling around on the sofa, my fingers just fly with not effort. The second I do dedicated practice with a metronome I tense up.

Littlejonny

Axe_meister said:

My problem is hearing the chord changes underneath and also thinking real time. I still have a long way to go in getting to know the fretboard and then the whole speed thing.
Although much faster than I was 6 months ago, I've still not fluid/fast enough to sound impressive, especially on a consistent basis.
When just noodling around on the sofa, my fingers just fly with not effort. The second I do dedicated practice with a metronome I tense up.

If you’re tensing up you’re probably putting too much pressure on yourself. Give yourself smaller/easier goals…I genuinely think with speed a lot of it is having good technique, which is much more than just putting your fingers on the strings and picking up and down. The thing you say about tensing up is absolutely key. It’s all about being as relaxed as possible even though you’re doing something difficult.