thoughts on the original Blackstar Artisan 30 ??

paulmapp8306

So,   Next purchase is a combo amp - good quality.

I use a Fractal AxeFX 3 currently, into a zilla 2x12 via a Fryette Power station - but want to add a small combo, pedal platform.   Im not that fussed about power TBH, its about the right sound - as I can use the Power Station to increase or decease volume if needed.

I have tried some, and have a few more to try in shops.  That list

Suhr bella - really nice, though MASSIVLEY loud even in 22 watts mode.   would have to use the Fryette - but would work.
Morgan - PR12 - nice but poor volume pot sweep (in that its off, on, break up on about 20 degrees of turn)
 Tried an older Two Rock Studio Pro, which i liked but want to try the newer Studio Signature.

i also have on my list a DrZ (Maz 18 most likely), a Magnatone Twilighter and a Matchless DC30.   I also liked the Hamstead I heard at the Brum guitar show but need a trip to their workshop for a better idea.

Now - Two other amps have come up used, a Dr EZG on here  - however this is a head not a combo.  It could work as I could use the Fryette and run both amp and Axe-FX into my Zilla.   not the pick up and go solution though.  the second is an original Blackstar Artisan 30 (the hand wired one with EF86 pre option and EL84 power tubes).   Now I havent been that taken with blackstars Ive tried  BUT Ive never tried these - and on the face of it are similar to the Matchless.  Its a 2x12 not a 1x12 but should fit where I need it to, and would be a pick up and go solution (unlike the EZG).

I dont really know much about them in honesty, or what a good used price would be but this one seems reasonable for aht it is ASSUMING it might fit my profile.  

So  - any thoughts.

Wazmeister

Blackstar Artisan 30 - loud and hard to tame. 

That Dr Z Maz 18 on the forum is a totally give away price.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/240132/fs-dr-z-maz-18-combo-725-1972-selmer-tnb-100w-head#latest

But what sound are you after ? There is a huge spectrum of amps you have mentioned there, with many different sounds.

paulmapp8306

Wazmeister said:

Blackstar Artisan 30 - loud and hard to tame. 

That Dr Z Maz 18 on the forum is a totally give away price.

https://www.thefretboard.co.uk/discussion/240132/fs-dr-z-maz-18-combo-725-1972-selmer-tnb-100w-head#latest

But what sound are you after ? There is a huge spectrum of amps you have mentioned there, with many different sounds.

This is it - Im not really sure.

Im PRETTY Sure I dont want a Marshall type clean.  I THOUGHT I wanted a more black face type, however I tried the Tone King Imperial 2 and though it was a little lifeless.  I liked the low end though.

the TR Studio had more of the sparkle up top I want, and a little more low end despite being an open backed 1x12....

This led me to think maybe more of an AC30 sound - hence the matchless, but they dont tend to have the low end (and why I didnt have it in my mid to start with).  

I think ideally, I want the low end of a 6L6 Fender (always prefer the bigger soundbetter control of 6L6s rather than 6V6s)  bottle - with the top end chime of an AC30.   Now thats not really possible, so its going to be a little bit of compromise.  

The Morgan PR12 I tried sounded great - wna thats more of a tweed with more low end than a blackface - so that left me scratching my head even more.   If that amp had more clean available on the pot (not necessarily more clean volume, but more controllable volume before it broke up) I may well have just gone for that.  

Im not in any rush -its the next thing at some point.  Id rather spend time and get it right than rush - and getting down to Peach or Andertons is a full day with travel, that has to work around family.  

Now - used amps come up that I may not have tried, or may not be on my list - but if I know it would suit, its maybe worth the gamble as price wise will be much cheaper.

My last synth purchase was a 3rd wave at £5k in July last year, and my last guitar spend was a PJE Ox at £3200 last month.   Cost isnt THAT much of a concern - getting the right clean platform is.

ecc83

"ORIGINAL" Artisan 30? I haven't checked but if Bs still make 'em I am bloody sure they have kept to the original design^?

And yes it has an EF86 channel but the power valves are EL84s not 34s. V rect is a GZ34.

*Hard to tame"? How so? The amps have top quality, very progressive volume pots AND a 10W option. Hefty transformers and an HT choke the amps are virtually bombproof but do weigh a ton!

*There were a couple of circuit mods for the very, very early models which improved OP valve and GZ life and if you got an extremely early one the power control made it a 2X EL84 single ended amp but that was soon changed to Triode operation.

Oh yes! Just seen.... the Artisan 30 WILL go very loud and clean.

Dave.

paulmapp8306

ecc83 said:

And yes it has an EF86 channel but the power valves are EL84s not 34s. V rect is a GZ34.

I meant 84s, not 34s -  amended.

What I mean by "original"... is they released an "Artist" version that was 2 proper channels and PCB design.  Ive seen a LOT of those advertised as Artisans....  which there not.    To some degree thats Blackstars fault - Artisan and Artist for an amp that looks very similar on the face of it, but  easy enough to check which it is.

no idea when the one Ive seen was built. Its in as new condition, and as advertised at £800.  My gut says that's a lot of amp for that price - and would be a great pedal platform and using the EF channel should be sonically about right clean.   it is only a gut feeling though not based on any actual knowledge of the amp lol.

GavRichList

You’ll never have to pay £800 for an artisan 30. I’m pretty sure there’s one on here for about half the price. 

They’re a brilliant amp. Scandalously heavy, but that’s my only criticism of them. I was an endorsee in a former life and used the artisan 30 for years - both the combos and the heads. Great amps that can be had for a bargain as their resale value is horrendous. That’s a brand thing I think, rather than a reflection of the quality of the amp. Pretty sure you’ll be able to get your hands on one for £500 tops. 

Supportact

I've never had an Artisan 30 but I've got an Artisan 100 head which is fantastic. Impractical for most gigs and as heavy as the sun itself, but it sounds great at any volume. 

ecc83

Supportact said:

I've never had an Artisan 30 but I've got an Artisan 100 head which is fantastic. Impractical for most gigs and as heavy as the sun itself, but it sounds great at any volume. 

You think the A100 is HEAVY?!! Try a Series One 200. I thought the guys had Araldited to the flloor as joke!

I am not, as some might think a TOTAL fan of Blackstar, they have IMHO missed some tricks and done daft things and calling an amp the Artist was a LULU! (I have recently discovered that there is at least one other 'Artist' gitamp) ALWAYS going to cause confusion and be a gift to con artists who know of the ArtisANs. The Artists are in any case based loosely on the HT40 I understand. A very competent and successful design but NOT a "pure valve signal path".

Now (again MHO) they COULD have made a real PCB version of the Artisans with a sstate rectifier and thus a less complex power transformer and produced something that sounded exactly like an Artisan but quite a lot less money. Maybe even put an FX loop iin it?

Oh! Paul you are not that far from Npton, I am sure if you gave Blackstar a call they would let you come and try an Artisan. They might even have a returned 'loaner' that you can dicker wonga about. You can be sure Phil will have it in top bllx nick!

Dave.

paulmapp8306

GavRichList said:

You’ll never have to pay £800 for an artisan 30. I’m pretty sure there’s one on here for about half the price. 

They’re a brilliant amp. Scandalously heavy, but that’s my only criticism of them. I was an endorsee in a former life and used the artisan 30 for years - both the combos and the heads. Great amps that can be had for a bargain as their resale value is horrendous. That’s a brand thing I think, rather than a reflection of the quality of the amp. Pretty sure you’ll be able to get your hands on one for £500 tops. 

There is a HEAD on here for £400, but I want the combo - which would be more.   Ill maybe keep around for used prices of the A30 combo and see if its close or not.   

a Quick Reverb check shows between £650 and £800 - so while on the top end of the asking price, it would depend on condition - and also location as most if not all will be collection.  The one iIve seen is 40 mins away.

*EDIT....  the one for £700 is the same as the one on EBay for £800 - Im guessing lower selling fees (which I know of first hand selling synths).   £700 could be worth it?

Listing for those in the know to look at:

https://reverb.com/uk/item/74801332-blackstar-artisan-30-handwired-30w-2x12-tube-guitar-combo-2008-present-burgundy

Given the TR Studio Sig is £3800, the Matchless DC 30 is £4600 - and most of the others are £2k or more (all new obviously) - £700 seems reasonable IF it fits my bill.

strtdv

If you're using an amp primarily as a clean base I'd suggest a Laney Lionheart. I gigged the 20 watt head with matching 2x12 for years, and have since downsized to the 5 watt head and a Matamp 1x12.
The cleans are lovely, and it pairs really well with the G12H30 (particularly the Heritage version that came with the original Made in England run).
They're also inexpensive used.

paulmapp8306

strtdv said:

If you're using an amp primarily as a clean base I'd suggest a Laney Lionheart. I gigged the 20 watt head with matching 2x12 for years, and have since downsized to the 5 watt head and a Matamp 1x12.
The cleans are lovely, and it pairs really well with the G12H30 (particularly the Heritage version that came with the original Made in England run).
They're also inexpensive used.

with all the wil in the world, laney is not the quality Im looking for TBH.

relic245

a Quick Reverb check shows between £650 and £800 - so while on the top end of the asking price, it would depend on condition - and also location as most if not all will be collection.  The one iIve seen is 40 mins away.

I would be surprised if they actually fetch that.

I sold  a combo last year for £400, same price I paid for it.

Maybe 7 years ago I sold a head and 2x12 in mint condition for £600.

Both took a long time to sell. they're great amps but not the most popular.

paulmapp8306

Ill keep an eye out then.   As I say - wasnt even on my list but at a cheap price, hand wired might be worth a go.  Ill keep an eye out round that £400 mark. 

relic245

There's one on eBay right now with a starting price of £400 I doubt it will go higher.

When I was selling mine I saw a couple gi on the bay for as low as £320

strtdv

paulmapp8306 said:

strtdv said:

If you're using an amp primarily as a clean base I'd suggest a Laney Lionheart. I gigged the 20 watt head with matching 2x12 for years, and have since downsized to the 5 watt head and a Matamp 1x12.
The cleans are lovely, and it pairs really well with the G12H30 (particularly the Heritage version that came with the original Made in England run).
They're also inexpensive used.

with all the wil in the world, laney is not the quality Im looking for TBH.

I tend to choose with my ears but suit yourself.
Mine stayed around a lot longer than either my Hiwatt or Matamp. The Laney may not be turret board but the sound and feel is there.

Teyeplayer

Is @Fiftyshadesofjay Blackstar Artisan 30 head still for sale? 

Fiftyshadesofjay

Sold unfortunately. I’d highly recommend getting one though, they sound immense. The combo is brutally heavy though 

paulmapp8306

relic245 said:

There's one on eBay right now with a starting price of £400 I doubt it will go higher.

When I was selling mine I saw a couple gi on the bay for as low as £320

bit of a trek to bristol though.  Its got some nicks cosmetically too.   6 hours round trip and £50 if fuel.   is 5 hours of my time and a cosmetically nicer amp worth £250 ??

That said its almost "throw away" prices lol.  Ive bought synth stuff for that price "just in case" thats never been used.   Im at that point in life lol. 

ecc83

paulmapp8306 said:

relic245 said:

There's one on eBay right now with a starting price of £400 I doubt it will go higher.

When I was selling mine I saw a couple gi on the bay for as low as £320

bit of a trek to bristol though.  Its got some nicks cosmetically too.   6 hours round trip and £50 if fuel.   is 5 hours of my time and a cosmetically nicer amp worth £250 ??

That said its almost "throw away" prices lol.  Ive bought synth stuff for that price "just in case" thats never been used.   Im at that point in life lol. 

Paul, no matter how battered and torn the cabinet if the amp works you can be 99.9% certain that it is electrically sound and will live another 50 years easily. Yes, once home it would be a very good idea to have it serviced at Northampton but apart from valves I never had any component fail in one. Never heard of one failing and don't expect anything to fail for decades. They are that well designed and made. They run the EL84s close to their design limits but do NOT cook them as the Vox is said to do!

BSH mate!

ecc83

Now, coming clean on that last...I did have to replace a power transformer in an A30 but it turned out to have an arcing GZ34 and the punter, instead of replacing the HT fuse and then retiring the amp when that also blew, kept feeding it fuses all night until the HT winding failed.

(Bruce HATED thermionic rectifiers!)

Dave.

paulmapp8306

ecc83 said:

Paul, no matter how battered and torn the cabinet if the amp works you can be 99.9% certain that it is electrically sound and will live another 50 years easily. 

Oh I totally get that.   I was thinking more in terms of the cost difference between the two v the cosmetic difference and taking into account the travel distance to collect each.

Ultimately,  Ive been playing Fractal gear since 2008.   Its always gone amp/cab and have use an Art SLA2, VHT 2:50:2, then had a Matrix XT800 - which as a PA amp and was involved in turning that in to the GT800FX and ;ater GT1000FX, the I moved to a Fryette Power Station 1, then a Seymor Duncan, Power Stage 170, and recently back to a Fryette PS 2a.

I kept my old VHT 50ST head and cab for the first two years, then moved it on.  I had a Fender Machete combo for a short while - but it never got used lol.

This is all about me getting older, and settling.   I bought a stage piano when I turned 50 and learned proper  piano (always has a synth workstation around) - which ended up in 6 years of almost no guitar playing, 1000s spent on synths and totally disappearing into that world. 

I will be keeping the Axe-FX rig - its massively versatile and easily the best way for silent recording and playing.  It  will also do any sound the combo/pedal rig Im looking for wont.

What I want is a keeper, something high end, well built and great sounding - something to last me into my twilight years.   A combo ideally  that will be 99.9% home use - though Im NOT concerned about volume as Ive said.  Im pretty much always around the 95db-100 db mark (meter in the room, on 2 metes above the speaker with a desk top between the two - though its a small 2 meter by 4 meter room so keep sound in) and often at 105 or over at home in the day, and I have that Power station when needs be (this could tame the volume if needed but also increase it for the very rare jam session if I end up with a lower powered combo).  I do tend to prefer larger wattage power sections historically for clean sounds.  Better control and dynamics I feel.

The idea is run it just on the edge of break up - pedal platform.  3-4 drive stages (one boost plus 3 drive types - either individual or duel function pedals).  A Compressor, a reverb (as I love Room and plate), 2 x delays (one analogue one digital - again muti function pedals asare finse as long as I can run the analogue into the digital at times), and a couple of modulation options (I mostly use Phaser and Tremolo - but If I have chorus and/or flanger options thats a bonus but not priority).

This will be a really nice, plug it and play, old school setup to complement the digital one.

This is why I dont really know what I want,.....  Its 16 years really since Ive had any "real amp in a room" reference.  im well out of the loop on decent amps.  my tastes have changed - back when I had amps they tended to be multi channel high gain amps (VHT, Deizel and such) rather than enjoying clean and low gain tones now.

Mu guitars have also changed.  Back at that time I ran 2 x PRSs (A Custom 22 I still have and a CE22 as a backup).  I now prefer my Tele alike, and a Tom Anderson with P90s in a strat config.   i do have a strat and that PRS still - so a range of guitar styles which said rig needs to work with.

Its as much a journey finding what I actually like, and then the right amp rather than just I NOW what I want, or I want a cheapish clean amp.  i do tend to favour toppy/bright cleans rather than the warmer rounder types, and I do like an nice bottom end too.

Im not ridged about a 1x12 combo though thats the ideal.  a 2x12 may work (dimensions permitting) as would a head and 1x12 cab (harder as Im more restricted in hight than width).  Im not stuck to hand wired point to point either - a great PCB design is fine by me really.  the Electonic background I have does LIKe the idea of PTP but the sensible head knows a good PCB design is usually better noise wise (though harder to fix).