laney VC30 - 210 - speaker replacement suggestions...?

markblack

Just following on from another question I asked...

I have a laney VC30 - 210 currently fitted with HH invaders. The internet tells me that a speaker upgrade would be nice...

I know NOTHING about speakers so just wondered what people might suggest to replace them with. when it comes to watts and ohms I get a bit lost...

I'm not looking to spend a fortune... it's more a little project to try out of curiosity.

Also if you think it's a waste of money and effort let me know.

info on the HH's I can find.

10" H||H Invader
         Model:  698 41002
         Ohms: 8Ω ea.
         Watts:  30 watts each

ecc83

Celestion make a 10" Greenback, rated at 30W so easily capably. Depends of course on the type of sound/genre you are going for. That great font of speaker Lorre, ICBM will surely chip in shortly?

HH speakers were I think made by Fane? They seem to be regarded as a bit "mehh!" in the guitar amp world?

Dave.

markblack

@ecc83 thanks for that. Sound wise I like the kind of edge of break up, blues type tones. Nothing radical. (I'm rubbish at describing that stuff) Usually quite clean and not at massive volume. 

ecc83

Very welcome. The G10N-40 is half the price of the Greeny and I don't think too foul? It was used in the very first HT-5s and although people LOVED to knock that amp I don't recall anyone slating the speaker except to comment that it wasn't a twelve!

BTW you should be able to recoup some dosh for the HH tens on the bay since some folks cannot fit another speaker size.

Dave.

steamabacus

markblack said:

info on the HH's I can find.

10" H||H Invader
         Model:  698 41002
         Ohms: 8Ω ea.
         Watts:  30 watts each

This didn't sound right to me so I looked up the spec on the Laney site - it's for the later Jensen-loaded model but it states " 2x 10" Jensen C10Q16" . It makes more sense to have 2 x 16ohm speakers in parallel for 8 ohms. I can't find a clear detailed image for the speaker sockets on the back but I did find one for the later VC30-212 which clearly reads 8 ohm internal with 8-16 ohm extension cabinet and a 4/8 ohm switch.

I would check what is printed on yours.

ecc83

Don't know about modern ones but the early AC30s did have two 8 Ohm units in series. This is against all the rules but presumably 8R was all they could get or they only had 16 Ohm traffs?

It is probably the case however that the unique tone of the amp was in great part due to the series connected speakers.

Dave.

markblack

@steamabacus mine looks like this...

steamabacus

Seems logical to have 2x16 ohm (in parallel) for 8 ohms internal with the option to use an 8 ohm extension cab (in parallel) and switch it to 4 ohms.

Dave_Mc

What type(s) of music do you play and what type(s) of tones do you like?

markblack

@Dave_Mc hello. I'm pretty typical. I'm into the likes of Jason Isbell... Americana... Edge of break up, nothing too heavy. If that helps? 

menamestom

I had the Jensen version and that sounded great.  Saying that, it was a very long time ago I had that amp but from memory the speakers fit it well.

I like Ragin Cajun’s myself, big and clear but over the Jensens they would add a lot of weight and be much louder.
If you want more volume then sensitivity is something to think about.  I would imagine the H&H would be fairly inefficient.

snowblind

The VC30 212 does use 2x 16 Ohm speakers in parallel in stock form. I have mine converted to use 2x 8 Ohm units with the selector set to 4 Ohm. Bear in mind that although the VC30 uses essentially the same EL84 power section as an AC30 they are very much different beasts. Similar territories perhaps but I would say not interchangeable.

Dave_Mc

markblack said:

@Dave_Mc hello. I'm pretty typical. I'm into the likes of Jason Isbell... Americana... Edge of break up, nothing too heavy. If that helps? 

If you don't play anything too heavy and you like a more American type of tone, the Jensens might be worth considering- they're not too dear and not too heavy and also not too loud (which can be good or bad depending on what you're after). They can be pretty bright, though.

I can't really remember how they sound in the VC30, though (I'm sure I tried them years ago but can't remember!), and there's also the C10R which is very nice too (I think the Laney which came stock with Jensens had C10Qs). I think I actually might prefer the C10R, at least in a more Black Panel Fendery amp (though the Laney isn't really Fendery, I don't think).

markblack

@Dave_Mc cheers for that I'll have a google

Cols

ecc83 said:

Don't know about modern ones but the early AC30s did have two 8 Ohm units in series. This is against all the rules but presumably 8R was all they could get or they only had 16 Ohm traffs?

It is probably the case however that the unique tone of the amp was in great part due to the series connected speakers.

Dave.

I’m curious - what’s bad about two 8 ohms in series from a ‘rules’ perspective?

I ask because that’s exactly what I have in my Marshall…

ecc83

Cols said:

ecc83 said:

Don't know about modern ones but the early AC30s did have two 8 Ohm units in series. This is against all the rules but presumably 8R was all they could get or they only had 16 Ohm traffs?

It is probably the case however that the unique tone of the amp was in great part due to the series connected speakers.

Dave.

I’m curious - what’s bad about two 8 ohms in series from a ‘rules’ perspective?

I ask because that’s exactly what I have in my Marshall…

It is not so much of a problem with guitar amps because they are not 'high fidelity' but quality amplifiers are designed to have a very low output impedance, less than 1/2 an Ohm for a decent valve amp. This gives the amplifier good control of the speaker resonances and ensures a flat frequency response. Put another speaker in the circuit totally effs that up and the speakers are free to honk like geese all over the shop. Valve guitar amps don't have a very ow output impedance anyway so it is not so important.

There is also the fact that you only need one speaker to blow open circuit and the amp is unloaded but I know the danger is a debatable point.

Dave.

Dave_Mc

markblack said:

@Dave_Mc cheers for that I'll have a google

No problem, just bear in mind that considering the Laney is more British-sounding (I think! from what I can remember from trying them), it's entirely possible that the C10Q works better with it. That is the one they picked, after all, and if anything the C10Q (at least at retail prices; no idea about wholesale prices which presumably Laney were getting) is dearer than the C10R, so presumably the decision wasn't based on cost...

ICBM

ecc83 said:

Cols said:

I’m curious - what’s bad about two 8 ohms in series from a ‘rules’ perspective?

I ask because that’s exactly what I have in my Marshall…

It is not so much of a problem with guitar amps because they are not 'high fidelity' but quality amplifiers are designed to have a very low output impedance, less than 1/2 an Ohm for a decent valve amp. This gives the amplifier good control of the speaker resonances and ensures a flat frequency response. Put another speaker in the circuit totally effs that up and the speakers are free to honk like geese all over the shop. Valve guitar amps don't have a very ow output impedance anyway so it is not so important.

Very true - with the usual caveat that a good rule of thumb is that what’s better for hi-fi is worse for guitar . (And vice versa.) It’s exactly that heavy interaction between the amp and the speakers which makes valve guitar amps sound good, so if anything series is probably better. (Although there are many great-sounding guitar amps with paralleled speakers too.)

Interestingly bass seems to be somewhere between the two - parallel wiring is usually preferred.

ecc83 said:

There is also the fact that you only need one speaker to blow open circuit and the amp is unloaded but I know the danger is a debatable point.

The risk with parallel wiring is that valve amps don’t de-rate their power all that much into twice the impedance, so if you don’t notice straight away that one speaker has gone, you just end up blowing the other one as well, and still having no load on the amp.

ecc83

All true but my feeling is that you MIGHT detect the first speaker blow and have a tiny chance of shutting the rig down. With speakers in series, one is just a fuse for the other!

Dave.

Broseley_Bob

I have the 112 version with the celestion speaker I I can’t remember which one.   I replaced it with a G22H 55HZ which is a great improvement.   You could try this or the 75HZ version.