Which PA speakers?

p90fool

Danny1969 said:

Unfortunately the brand doesn't mean a lot anymore. Some previous premium brands such as EV now buy in generic class D  modules and install them in generic plastic boxs with EV drivers and an EV badge. But the amp inside is no better than anything else you will find at the low end and the wattage rating is exaggerated. The ZLX 12" for example are only about 200 watts RMS but a lot of people think they are 500 watts or so.

I've said this loads of times but all class D modern active speakers will fail eventually due to the stresses experienced by the capacitors. Even if it's a great circuit, like in an HK power amp module used in their tops and bins it will still fail as electrolytic caps have a finite life. So be careful of buying 2nd hand. It's very common for one speaker to fail. That gets repaired but then the speakers get sold as a working pair but one of them is about to fail shortly as generally, both tops have the same working hours on them. There's been many times I've repaired one top or a bin for a customer and told them this and they have just said "just fix the broken one so I can sell them"

The older heavy Mackies SRM's with the linear supply are capable of lasting 3 times as long as the more modern class D versions. 

Don't ignore a good ole power amp such as a PV-2600 and a set of passive speakers. Passive speakers are lighter than powered ones, only require a speaker cable rather than a mains cable too and are safer to use outdoors. 

Older class AB amplifiers like the PV series are capable of running 10 nights a month for 20 years without any sign of failure at all because a class AB design is far less complex and stressy on the caps than a modern class D. 

We have class AB amps and passive boxes hire stock that's been gigging for 30 years, stuff that had done 10 years before we brought it. Then we put 20 years on it. 

This. I had half a dozen or more failures in our small band setup over ten years or so using molded plastic powered cabs, partly through thinking names like Mackie counted for something. 

For the last three years we've gone back to an old Yamaha powered mixer with passive cabs and it's been great, and actually sounds better than Mackie Thumps and their equivalents too. 

andyg_prs

@p90fool ; which passive cab models are you using please?

p90fool

I think they're Peavey Messenger Pro 12s. 

Nothing special but fine for pub vocals and bombproof. 

Moltisanti

Roland said:

SRM450s have several press switches. I’ve labelled them IN and OUT, and check them everytime I plug in an XLR.

which ones do you have in/out ? curious as I have the same speakers

andyg_prs

Hey guys, I'd quite like to collate a list of 'target' passive speakers, so please let me know which you'd recommend.  Then I can hunt them down secondhand

Roland

Moltisanti said:

Roland said:

SRM450s have several press switches. I’ve labelled them IN and OUT, and check them everytime I plug in an XLR.

which ones do you have in/out ? curious as I have the same speakers

Auto time-out is Off. It’s so long since I looked at them that I can’t remember what the others do. I think one is Off and the other is On.

Danny1969

There are different models of SRM but the MK1 450's for example have 

Low cut ... this is a filter that blocks anything below 80Hz from reaching the drivers. Keep it in if you have bins or only use the speakers for vocals and guitars 

Contour ... this is like the loudness button on an old Hi Fi, it boosts the low and high end by a few dB to give impact at lower volumes 

Time  ... this turns the speaker off if there's no signal for a few minutes 

The Mk1's are very robust in design and can do thousands of gigs due to the linear design. There's a couple of resistors that can develop bad joints and I show these on out community repair thread on here. 

The newer and lighter SRM's aren't as robust but still decent enough. 

@andyg_prs ;

We have a lot of HK passive speakers but don't discount some of the Peavey passive box's, we have a couple of sets that have taken tremendous punishment and still sound fine after 20 years. 

andyg_prs

@Danny1969 ;; - thanks, I'm asking as there are dozens of models and I don't know what I am looking for.....am I looking for a main speaker with 10", 12", 15" diameter etc?  Sorry to be a pain but that's why I was after model numbers in the same way that I'm going to keep an eye out for a PV-2600

Danny1969

andyg_prs said:

@Danny1969 ;; - thanks, I'm asking as there are dozens of models and I don't know what I am looking for.....am I looking for a main speaker with 10", 12", 15" diameter etc?  Sorry to be a pain but that's why I was after model numbers in the same way that I'm going to keep an eye out for a PV-2600

oh Ok well it depends really. Personally a set with 12" drivers and a horn is fine on their own for vocals and guitars. If you are mic'ing up kick and have some instruments with low end in the PA then at least one bass bin is nice with a 15" driver

We have Linear Pro and Premium Pro passive speakers from HK ..... 12" tops and a selection of 18" and 15" bins ... and these are run from HK amps. A lot of HK stuff comes onto Ebay as it's popular with PA companies like do who do dry hire small PA and engineered  PA for theatres and small festivals. 

I think the Peaveys are Hisyths or similar name ... they are wedge shaped towards the back like a lot if boxes were in the nineties and are covered in thin black carpet ... all the gears in our lockup so I can't just go and have a gander 

Roland

Danny1969 said:

There are different models of SRM but the MK1 450's for example have 

Low cut ... this is a filter that blocks anything below 80Hz from reaching the drivers. Keep it in if you have bins or only use the speakers for vocals and guitars 

Contour ... this is like the loudness button on an old Hi Fi, it boosts the low and high end by a few dB to give impact at lower volumes 

Time  ... this turns the speaker off if there's no signal for a few minutes ... 

Thanks Danny. Mine are Mk1s. 

@Moltisanti ;Low cut is On, even though we use a crossover which sends anything this low to a sub. Contour is Off, we use the mixer for EQ changes.

andyg_prs

Danny1969 said:

andyg_prs said:

@Danny1969 ;; - thanks, I'm asking as there are dozens of models and I don't know what I am looking for.....am I looking for a main speaker with 10", 12", 15" diameter etc?  Sorry to be a pain but that's why I was after model numbers in the same way that I'm going to keep an eye out for a PV-2600

oh Ok well it depends really. Personally a set with 12" drivers and a horn is fine on their own for vocals and guitars. If you are mic'ing up kick and have some instruments with low end in the PA then at least one bass bin is nice with a 15" driver

We have Linear Pro and Premium Pro passive speakers from HK ..... 12" tops and a selection of 18" and 15" bins ... and these are run from HK amps. A lot of HK stuff comes onto Ebay as it's popular with PA companies like do who do dry hire small PA and engineered  PA for theatres and small festivals. 

I think the Peaveys are Hisyths or similar name ... they are wedge shaped towards the back like a lot if boxes were in the nineties and are covered in thin black carpet ... all the gears in our lockup so I can't just go and have a gander 

Thanks, I looked up Hisys on eBay, so a few different ones being offered, one was only 4 ohm, and then I found this single manual page, and more confused than ever  https://assets.peavey.com/literature/manuals/rm80000120.pdf

Jonathangus

p90fool said:

Danny1969 said:

Unfortunately the brand doesn't mean a lot anymore. Some previous premium brands such as EV now buy in generic class D  modules and install them in generic plastic boxs with EV drivers and an EV badge. But the amp inside is no better than anything else you will find at the low end and the wattage rating is exaggerated. The ZLX 12" for example are only about 200 watts RMS but a lot of people think they are 500 watts or so.

I've said this loads of times but all class D modern active speakers will fail eventually due to the stresses experienced by the capacitors. Even if it's a great circuit, like in an HK power amp module used in their tops and bins it will still fail as electrolytic caps have a finite life. So be careful of buying 2nd hand. It's very common for one speaker to fail. That gets repaired but then the speakers get sold as a working pair but one of them is about to fail shortly as generally, both tops have the same working hours on them. There's been many times I've repaired one top or a bin for a customer and told them this and they have just said "just fix the broken one so I can sell them"

The older heavy Mackies SRM's with the linear supply are capable of lasting 3 times as long as the more modern class D versions. 

Don't ignore a good ole power amp such as a PV-2600 and a set of passive speakers. Passive speakers are lighter than powered ones, only require a speaker cable rather than a mains cable too and are safer to use outdoors. 

Older class AB amplifiers like the PV series are capable of running 10 nights a month for 20 years without any sign of failure at all because a class AB design is far less complex and stressy on the caps than a modern class D. 

We have class AB amps and passive boxes hire stock that's been gigging for 30 years, stuff that had done 10 years before we brought it. Then we put 20 years on it. 

This. I had half a dozen or more failures in our small band setup over ten years or so using molded plastic powered cabs, partly through thinking names like Mackie counted for something. 

For the last three years we've gone back to an old Yamaha powered mixer with passive cabs and it's been great, and actually sounds better than Mackie Thumps and their equivalents too. 

That's what we have at the moment - a Peavey powered mixer and a couple of Peavey 12" tops.  But we're starting to incorporate backing vocals, so I'm looking at something to give us a more sophisticated monitoring setup.  I can see that, for a pro or semi-pro band, gigging twice a week for paying punters, having the bulletproof reliability of those old amps makes a lot of sense.  But a PV-2600 weighs in at 22kg! Then, if you decide you want subs, that's a second amp, maybe a crossover, and you're then carting around a 50kg+ rack which you've somehow got to squeeze into your car.

I'm certainly not averse to old-school tech (you only need to look at my amp and pedalboard to see that!), but for a largely amateur band, gigging occasionally, I cant help feeling that the covenience of modern active speakers has a lot to be said for it.

Moltisanti

my Mackie SRM450s are about 22kg each, so 2 of them plus desk + cables + stands adds up too...

p90fool

Jonathangus said:

p90fool said:

Danny1969 said:

Unfortunately the brand doesn't mean a lot anymore. Some previous premium brands such as EV now buy in generic class D  modules and install them in generic plastic boxs with EV drivers and an EV badge. But the amp inside is no better than anything else you will find at the low end and the wattage rating is exaggerated. The ZLX 12" for example are only about 200 watts RMS but a lot of people think they are 500 watts or so.

I've said this loads of times but all class D modern active speakers will fail eventually due to the stresses experienced by the capacitors. Even if it's a great circuit, like in an HK power amp module used in their tops and bins it will still fail as electrolytic caps have a finite life. So be careful of buying 2nd hand. It's very common for one speaker to fail. That gets repaired but then the speakers get sold as a working pair but one of them is about to fail shortly as generally, both tops have the same working hours on them. There's been many times I've repaired one top or a bin for a customer and told them this and they have just said "just fix the broken one so I can sell them"

The older heavy Mackies SRM's with the linear supply are capable of lasting 3 times as long as the more modern class D versions. 

Don't ignore a good ole power amp such as a PV-2600 and a set of passive speakers. Passive speakers are lighter than powered ones, only require a speaker cable rather than a mains cable too and are safer to use outdoors. 

Older class AB amplifiers like the PV series are capable of running 10 nights a month for 20 years without any sign of failure at all because a class AB design is far less complex and stressy on the caps than a modern class D. 

We have class AB amps and passive boxes hire stock that's been gigging for 30 years, stuff that had done 10 years before we brought it. Then we put 20 years on it. 

This. I had half a dozen or more failures in our small band setup over ten years or so using molded plastic powered cabs, partly through thinking names like Mackie counted for something. 

For the last three years we've gone back to an old Yamaha powered mixer with passive cabs and it's been great, and actually sounds better than Mackie Thumps and their equivalents too. 

That's what we have at the moment - a Peavey powered mixer and a couple of Peavey 12" tops.  But we're starting to incorporate backing vocals, so I'm looking at something to give us a more sophisticated monitoring setup.  I can see that, for a pro or semi-pro band, gigging twice a week for paying punters, having the bulletproof reliability of those old amps makes a lot of sense.  But a PV-2600 weighs in at 22kg! Then, if you decide you want subs, that's a second amp, maybe a crossover, and you're then carting around a 50kg+ rack which you've somehow got to squeeze into your car.

I'm certainly not averse to old-school tech (you only need to look at my amp and pedalboard to see that!), but for a largely amateur band, gigging occasionally, I cant help feeling that the covenience of modern active speakers has a lot to be said for it.

@Jonathangus our old Yamaha powered mixer is not versatile enough for us either so I only use it as a power amp, I feed it with a separate 16 channel mixer.